3 ms·

> it's not clearly a completely stupid idea on its face A law to protect a useless middleman? Seems completely stupid to me.

allmiwe 5y ago
Only because you apparently failed to read any of the paragraph that ended in the quoted sentence fragment, but decided that it would be worth everyone’s time to add your Smug Noise to the conversation.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Which bit do you think's relevant? To protect the middlemen because they've 'done the work of proving a market'? I don't think 'proving a market' is work that should be protected by the state. Undercutting is efficiency and pro-consumer. Dealers provide no value anywhere - why do we want them?
micromacrofoot 5y ago
They're not all that useless... dealers took on the initial risk of starting the business. To come in and undercut dealers is much less risky! the manufacturer would be effectively be avoiding the risk (proving the market) and stealing the reward. I have zero idea of whether or not it's good to regulate against that type of thing, but there's logic there. In the case of the law, it seems ridiculous that there's no room to say "well clearly this is an exception that doesn't violate the reason the law exists" - is this a matter of dealers pushing to uphold the law because they don't want competition?
- abfan1127 5y ago
  Best Buy sells Apple Products. Apple has Apple stores. Best Buy took the same risks. I don't see the logic.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    You see the logic, but you're using the first counter example you can think of to disregard it. (Coincidentally, computers used to be sold through dealers like Best Buy until the mid 80s) There are 3,000 Chevy dealerships in the US (more than Best Buy and Apple stores combined). That's 3,000 businesses that Chevy doesn't need to prove the market for, pay property taxes on, hire salespeople for, insure, etc... all these dealerships have incentives to promote the manufacturers' brand and provide localized support. They do their own advertising too. I'll go out on a limb and say Tesla will never have 3,000 locations. Ever. They won't want to maintain that much physical overhead (and they're nowhere near the capacity to produce inventory at that scale). This might mean you're driving 4+ hours to get service if you live somewhere like Maine, and if you want a new car next week... well, good luck (if you order a new Model Y now you might get it by early 2022 at best). Again, maybe the dealer model is outdated, maybe it's bad... I don't know... but I wouldn't call dealerships "useless middlemen" or "completely stupid" – there are plenty of benefits that go back decades, and still exist today. If all manufacturers stopped selling inventory to dealers tomorrow, you'd be totally screwed if you wanted to go buy a car. Even if you remove the annoying sales tactics and profit, dealerships are the entire infrastructure for the way manufacturers maintain inventory and sell cars.
  - yunohn 5y ago
    Best Buy also sells a million other things.
    - arbitrary_name 5y ago
      The car dealers are free to sell other cars? Or dashboard bobbleheads, perhaps?
      - yunohn 5y ago
        It’s not feasible to stock a thousand different cars, and provide servicing and support for all of them. You really can’t make random comparisons, it doesn’t further the discussion.

allmiwe 5y ago

Only because you apparently failed to read any of the paragraph that ended in the quoted sentence fragment, but decided that it would be worth everyone’s time to add your Smug Noise to the conversation.

chrisseaton 5y ago
Which bit do you think's relevant? To protect the middlemen because they've 'done the work of proving a market'? I don't think 'proving a market' is work that should be protected by the state. Undercutting is efficiency and pro-consumer. Dealers provide no value anywhere - why do we want them?

micromacrofoot 5y ago

They're not all that useless... dealers took on the initial risk of starting the business. To come in and undercut dealers is much less risky! the manufacturer would be effectively be avoiding the risk (proving the market) and stealing the reward. I have zero idea of whether or not it's good to regulate against that type of thing, but there's logic there. In the case of the law, it seems ridiculous that there's no room to say "well clearly this is an exception that doesn't violate the reason the law exists" - is this a matter of dealers pushing to uphold the law because they don't want competition?

abfan1127 5y ago
Best Buy sells Apple Products. Apple has Apple stores. Best Buy took the same risks. I don't see the logic.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  You see the logic, but you're using the first counter example you can think of to disregard it. (Coincidentally, computers used to be sold through dealers like Best Buy until the mid 80s) There are 3,000 Chevy dealerships in the US (more than Best Buy and Apple stores combined). That's 3,000 businesses that Chevy doesn't need to prove the market for, pay property taxes on, hire salespeople for, insure, etc... all these dealerships have incentives to promote the manufacturers' brand and provide localized support. They do their own advertising too. I'll go out on a limb and say Tesla will never have 3,000 locations. Ever. They won't want to maintain that much physical overhead (and they're nowhere near the capacity to produce inventory at that scale). This might mean you're driving 4+ hours to get service if you live somewhere like Maine, and if you want a new car next week... well, good luck (if you order a new Model Y now you might get it by early 2022 at best). Again, maybe the dealer model is outdated, maybe it's bad... I don't know... but I wouldn't call dealerships "useless middlemen" or "completely stupid" – there are plenty of benefits that go back decades, and still exist today. If all manufacturers stopped selling inventory to dealers tomorrow, you'd be totally screwed if you wanted to go buy a car. Even if you remove the annoying sales tactics and profit, dealerships are the entire infrastructure for the way manufacturers maintain inventory and sell cars.
- yunohn 5y ago
  Best Buy also sells a million other things.
  - arbitrary_name 5y ago
    The car dealers are free to sell other cars? Or dashboard bobbleheads, perhaps?
    - yunohn 5y ago
      It’s not feasible to stock a thousand different cars, and provide servicing and support for all of them. You really can’t make random comparisons, it doesn’t further the discussion.