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> Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. In a

> Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. In addition, some topical forms of ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head lice and for skin conditions such as rosacea. I wish people would stop making the claim that it's "just a horse dewormer" when even the FDA says it has some uses in humans. Whether or not it is effective against COVID19 is a valid issue, but trying to portray the whole drug as something else just makes your opponents jump to conclusions when they find it does actually work in certain situations/diseases.

p_l 5y ago
The big problem is that the pills people are obtaining are "just a horse dewormer". The specification is different, the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ (drug delivery is frighteningly complex area). Meanwhile people made enough run on ivermectin-based horse dewormer that people had trouble getting it for livestock.
- jbotz 5y ago
  > the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ Neither the dosages nor the active ingredients are different. Both for humans and for animals, the recommended dose of Ivermectin to treat parasites is 200 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. The "active ingredients" are Ivermectin, period. I have a bottle of injectable Ivermectin intended for cattle here, and it says it's pure Ivermectin in propylene glycol (typical carrier for injectables even for humans). I got it to treat Histomoniasis in our turkeys, which is btw an off-label use, because officially Ivermectin is not supposed to be effective against protozoa, but Histomoniasis is almost 100% fatal in turkeys and I haven't lost one since starting to give them Ivermectin as soon as I notice they have it. I've found that if I give them 600 micrograms/kg body weight every other day 3 times, they recover fully. What does this have to do with Covid? Only that a) Ivermectin works for some things other than those for which it's officially "blessed", b) at least in turkeys a much larger than normal dose doesn't seem to have any ill effects. As for the dose, I decided that it was probably safe for our turkeys because I read a paper where they gave that dosage to humans to combat malaria by making those humans lethally toxic to the mosquitos. The paper said the dose was "well tolerated". If they can do that to their human patients I can do it with my turkeys. I'm not planning to inject myself with my veterinary Ivermectin even if I did come down with Covid... because I agree that so far the evidence that it's helpful isn't very strong. But I also think that this article is quite laughable... basically it says "Why You shouldn't use Ivermectin to treat or prevent Covid: because, uh... because we haven't said it's OK to do so." Sorry CDC, but your credibility just isn't /that/ high. And going to a hospital for /anything/ is also really dangerous... almost certainly more so than a couple of doses of Ivermectin.
  - simonh 5y ago
    They give two reasons that I think are much more than uh, we haven't said it's ok. One is people are getting sick and hospitalised for taking this stuff. The second is, it can have interactions with other medications people might be taking or conditions they might have. Also the stuff you have might be free of non-active ingredients with adverse risks for humans, but other formulations might well contain such ingredients. Note that the FDA does not say don't take it if your doctor prescribes it, they just say in that case you should follow the directions precisely. The problem is the majority of people taking this stuff don't seem to be doing so under medical guidance. That's a serious issue they have a responsibility to address.
    - panny 5y ago
      The "ivermectin overdoses" story was debunked. https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1434538877642027015 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1434538877642027015
      - simonh 5y ago
        A report has been discredited, but the National Poison Data System states there were 459 reported cases of ivermectin overdose in the United States in August. That's a 245% jump compared to July. There's a fair bit of exaggeration going on, in both directions. Surprise.
  - tzs 5y ago
    > Both for humans and for animals, the recommended dose of Ivermectin to treat parasites is 200 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. I think he might have meant the dosage that it is sold in is different. Ivermectin for treating parasites is typically supposed to be taken as a single dose. For some parasites it might need to be repeated in 3 to 12 months. If a doctor prescribes it to treat a human I'd expect the prescription to be for the right amount of pills for your body weight to deliver that single you-sized dose. Horse ivermectin is sold in a quantity suitable for a 1250 pound horse. From what I've read it appears that a lot of people buy that horse-sized single dose and use it all. Worse, a lot of them seem to take it daily.
- mdp2021 5y ago
  > specification is different, the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ I understood a chief issue to discriminate product X₁ for use with humans and product X₂ for use with the rest (livestock) is the quality control in production: the first is certified for some threshold of quality, the second uses more loose parameters. (I may be wrong, I welcome corrections and clarifications.)
undersuit 5y ago
I call horse paste eaters horse paste eaters, those actually getting prescribed Ivermectin by their doctors aren't the ones calling poison control.
aaron695 5y ago
> when even the FDA says it has some uses in humans. Billions of dosages have been used by humans. 250 million people take it annually, and that's still to low. It's a critical part of the developing world. And once again the vile Left have shown their colors and proved all they care about is hurting people. Hurt the Rich, hurt the Republicans, hurt the low IQ'ed. While stigmatising a vital drug used by the real poor. The Left are awful human beings to treat the poor so badly, we should be outraged. Ivermectin is a very safe drug. Part of the reason some call it a super drug is you can use in with low amounts of training in developing countries. And when used on livestock it's very safe for consumption compared to alternatives. Its not by numbers used by rich peoples horses, the Left has weaponized this idea. This is the fake Polio vaccines all over again.

p_l 5y ago

The big problem is that the pills people are obtaining are "just a horse dewormer". The specification is different, the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ (drug delivery is frighteningly complex area). Meanwhile people made enough run on ivermectin-based horse dewormer that people had trouble getting it for livestock.

jbotz 5y ago
> the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ Neither the dosages nor the active ingredients are different. Both for humans and for animals, the recommended dose of Ivermectin to treat parasites is 200 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. The "active ingredients" are Ivermectin, period. I have a bottle of injectable Ivermectin intended for cattle here, and it says it's pure Ivermectin in propylene glycol (typical carrier for injectables even for humans). I got it to treat Histomoniasis in our turkeys, which is btw an off-label use, because officially Ivermectin is not supposed to be effective against protozoa, but Histomoniasis is almost 100% fatal in turkeys and I haven't lost one since starting to give them Ivermectin as soon as I notice they have it. I've found that if I give them 600 micrograms/kg body weight every other day 3 times, they recover fully. What does this have to do with Covid? Only that a) Ivermectin works for some things other than those for which it's officially "blessed", b) at least in turkeys a much larger than normal dose doesn't seem to have any ill effects. As for the dose, I decided that it was probably safe for our turkeys because I read a paper where they gave that dosage to humans to combat malaria by making those humans lethally toxic to the mosquitos. The paper said the dose was "well tolerated". If they can do that to their human patients I can do it with my turkeys. I'm not planning to inject myself with my veterinary Ivermectin even if I did come down with Covid... because I agree that so far the evidence that it's helpful isn't very strong. But I also think that this article is quite laughable... basically it says "Why You shouldn't use Ivermectin to treat or prevent Covid: because, uh... because we haven't said it's OK to do so." Sorry CDC, but your credibility just isn't /that/ high. And going to a hospital for /anything/ is also really dangerous... almost certainly more so than a couple of doses of Ivermectin.
- simonh 5y ago
  They give two reasons that I think are much more than uh, we haven't said it's ok. One is people are getting sick and hospitalised for taking this stuff. The second is, it can have interactions with other medications people might be taking or conditions they might have. Also the stuff you have might be free of non-active ingredients with adverse risks for humans, but other formulations might well contain such ingredients. Note that the FDA does not say don't take it if your doctor prescribes it, they just say in that case you should follow the directions precisely. The problem is the majority of people taking this stuff don't seem to be doing so under medical guidance. That's a serious issue they have a responsibility to address.
  - panny 5y ago
    The "ivermectin overdoses" story was debunked. https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1434538877642027015 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1434538877642027015
    - simonh 5y ago
      A report has been discredited, but the National Poison Data System states there were 459 reported cases of ivermectin overdose in the United States in August. That's a 245% jump compared to July. There's a fair bit of exaggeration going on, in both directions. Surprise.
- tzs 5y ago
  > Both for humans and for animals, the recommended dose of Ivermectin to treat parasites is 200 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. I think he might have meant the dosage that it is sold in is different. Ivermectin for treating parasites is typically supposed to be taken as a single dose. For some parasites it might need to be repeated in 3 to 12 months. If a doctor prescribes it to treat a human I'd expect the prescription to be for the right amount of pills for your body weight to deliver that single you-sized dose. Horse ivermectin is sold in a quantity suitable for a 1250 pound horse. From what I've read it appears that a lot of people buy that horse-sized single dose and use it all. Worse, a lot of them seem to take it daily.
mdp2021 5y ago
> specification is different, the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ I understood a chief issue to discriminate product X₁ for use with humans and product X₂ for use with the rest (livestock) is the quality control in production: the first is certified for some threshold of quality, the second uses more loose parameters. (I may be wrong, I welcome corrections and clarifications.)

undersuit 5y ago

I call horse paste eaters horse paste eaters, those actually getting prescribed Ivermectin by their doctors aren't the ones calling poison control.

aaron695 5y ago

> when even the FDA says it has some uses in humans. Billions of dosages have been used by humans. 250 million people take it annually, and that's still to low. It's a critical part of the developing world. And once again the vile Left have shown their colors and proved all they care about is hurting people. Hurt the Rich, hurt the Republicans, hurt the low IQ'ed. While stigmatising a vital drug used by the real poor. The Left are awful human beings to treat the poor so badly, we should be outraged. Ivermectin is a very safe drug. Part of the reason some call it a super drug is you can use in with low amounts of training in developing countries. And when used on livestock it's very safe for consumption compared to alternatives. Its not by numbers used by rich peoples horses, the Left has weaponized this idea. This is the fake Polio vaccines all over again.