5 ms·

But now that these laws are on the books, the existing owners of dealerships actively lobby the state legislators to keep this as the status quo and reduce comp

by andjd 5y ago

But now that these laws are on the books, the existing owners of dealerships actively lobby the state legislators to keep this as the status quo and reduce competition. The dealers, and lawmakers, hope that Tesla will give in and start selling through existing dealerships.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Reminds me of how the alcohol distribution system in some states causes ridiculous situations such as requiring Trader Joe's to sell their inhouse wine to a distributor and then requiring them to buy it back in order to sell it in their stores. Obviously the distributor loves this as they get to rent seek while adding no value at all. That gives them plenty of money to lobby with to keep them in the loop.
- opinion-is-bad 5y ago
  I can confirm this. I opened a distillery during the pandemic and had to pay a middle man during some online sales simply to cover legal requirements. The middle man never even handled the product. Very frustrating way to spend money.
  - DudeInBasement 5y ago
    If only you could tell people of the past the problems of big government
  - coding123 5y ago
    Have you considered having your wife start a distribution company?
    - kkylin 5y ago
      Clever idea! I have no knowledge about any of this whatsoever, but would venture to guess that in states where this kind of thing happens, licensing to become a distributor may be very difficult. For example, the total number of licenses may be constrained.
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      You could provide this service to other companies. Flat rate, instant shipping $500 a year. “Notify us when you want stock, and we will instantly order, receive and deliver your product to your warehouse. Flat rate charge no matter how large the order.”
- abrowne 5y ago
  One difference is the alcohol rules are a remnant of (post-)Prohibition and are meant to make alcohol harder or more expensive to get.
  - kennywinker 5y ago
    Right, but if the goal is to make alcohol expensive and unavailable the ideal lever to pull would be a vice tax. Instead of that money going to random unaccountable middleman, it goes to the people - who are already shouldering much of the social cost of alcohol (healthcare, policing, etc). I'm not sure i support vice-taxes, but they're clearly better than just giving it to whichever random rich person or industry insider that manages to insert themselves.
    - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
      Politicians get blamed for taxes. Middlemen are a safe hidden tax that has the bonus of padding their campaign funding.
      - erhk 5y ago
        Maybe we should get together an angry mob
    - aksss 5y ago
      I support vice taxes, at least insofar as their good intention is concerned - making it hard(er) to engage in the vice, while not prohibiting it. However, consumption based taxes (direct or indirect) also disproportionately proscribe lower income people from engaging in such activities. Tax a carton of cigarettes? Worthless if I can just hit the Rez or hop to another town that doesn’t tax. Screwed if you don’t have that kind of mobility. There’s a disturbingly classist nature to them, which gets all the more concerning when it involves fundamental rights - if only the rich can afford to own a gun, get an abortion, speak freely, for example. Additionally, vice taxes at some high point are effectively prohibition. Make alcohol too expensive (directly/indirectly) and bootlegging becomes more popular, with its attendant health risks, crime, etc. Make cocaine too expensive and meth gets more popular. Sell untaxed cigarettes and witness how laws are only enforced with an implicit threat of violence that may become explicit (ask Eric Garner). Tough job, controlling societies.
unstatusthequo 5y ago
This comment implies that manufacturers need 3rd party dealers/distributors. I think Tesla has globally proven their market.
- PostThisTooFast 5y ago
  No, it doesn't.
mkhpalm 5y ago
> Tesla will give in and start selling through existing dealerships. What is stopping Tesla from structuring a corp owned dealership in NM? I know there are lots of "dealerships" that exist only on paper with no lot or cars that exclusively sell OEM parts online. Why is Tesla going so far out of their way to avoid state laws here?
- smegger001 5y ago
  to avoid setting a precedent that can be used against them in their fight archaic laws that have outlived their usefulness

by andjd 5y ago

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

Reminds me of how the alcohol distribution system in some states causes ridiculous situations such as requiring Trader Joe's to sell their inhouse wine to a distributor and then requiring them to buy it back in order to sell it in their stores. Obviously the distributor loves this as they get to rent seek while adding no value at all. That gives them plenty of money to lobby with to keep them in the loop.

opinion-is-bad 5y ago
I can confirm this. I opened a distillery during the pandemic and had to pay a middle man during some online sales simply to cover legal requirements. The middle man never even handled the product. Very frustrating way to spend money.
- DudeInBasement 5y ago
  If only you could tell people of the past the problems of big government
- coding123 5y ago
  Have you considered having your wife start a distribution company?
  - kkylin 5y ago
    Clever idea! I have no knowledge about any of this whatsoever, but would venture to guess that in states where this kind of thing happens, licensing to become a distributor may be very difficult. For example, the total number of licenses may be constrained.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    You could provide this service to other companies. Flat rate, instant shipping $500 a year. “Notify us when you want stock, and we will instantly order, receive and deliver your product to your warehouse. Flat rate charge no matter how large the order.”
abrowne 5y ago
One difference is the alcohol rules are a remnant of (post-)Prohibition and are meant to make alcohol harder or more expensive to get.
- kennywinker 5y ago
  Right, but if the goal is to make alcohol expensive and unavailable the ideal lever to pull would be a vice tax. Instead of that money going to random unaccountable middleman, it goes to the people - who are already shouldering much of the social cost of alcohol (healthcare, policing, etc). I'm not sure i support vice-taxes, but they're clearly better than just giving it to whichever random rich person or industry insider that manages to insert themselves.
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    Politicians get blamed for taxes. Middlemen are a safe hidden tax that has the bonus of padding their campaign funding.
    - erhk 5y ago
      Maybe we should get together an angry mob
  - aksss 5y ago
    I support vice taxes, at least insofar as their good intention is concerned - making it hard(er) to engage in the vice, while not prohibiting it. However, consumption based taxes (direct or indirect) also disproportionately proscribe lower income people from engaging in such activities. Tax a carton of cigarettes? Worthless if I can just hit the Rez or hop to another town that doesn’t tax. Screwed if you don’t have that kind of mobility. There’s a disturbingly classist nature to them, which gets all the more concerning when it involves fundamental rights - if only the rich can afford to own a gun, get an abortion, speak freely, for example. Additionally, vice taxes at some high point are effectively prohibition. Make alcohol too expensive (directly/indirectly) and bootlegging becomes more popular, with its attendant health risks, crime, etc. Make cocaine too expensive and meth gets more popular. Sell untaxed cigarettes and witness how laws are only enforced with an implicit threat of violence that may become explicit (ask Eric Garner). Tough job, controlling societies.

unstatusthequo 5y ago

This comment implies that manufacturers need 3rd party dealers/distributors. I think Tesla has globally proven their market.

PostThisTooFast 5y ago
No, it doesn't.

mkhpalm 5y ago

> Tesla will give in and start selling through existing dealerships. What is stopping Tesla from structuring a corp owned dealership in NM? I know there are lots of "dealerships" that exist only on paper with no lot or cars that exclusively sell OEM parts online. Why is Tesla going so far out of their way to avoid state laws here?

smegger001 5y ago
to avoid setting a precedent that can be used against them in their fight archaic laws that have outlived their usefulness