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I think people react to veganism as a crazy idea because it's threatening. As an ethical choice, it's passing judgement on their own choices. So their (probably

by kelp 5y ago

I think people react to veganism as a crazy idea because it's threatening. As an ethical choice, it's passing judgement on their own choices. So their (probably unconscious) reaction is to dismiss it at crazy. That's a defense mechanism to keep them from having to take a hard look at their own choices and the impact on other living beings. I was a pretty long time vegan and after about a decade as an omnivore, I'm now mostly avoid meat again, though I'm not as strict as I once was. When I was a serious vegan I'd keep it to myself unless I really had to mention it. But once it came up, people would frequently try to poke holes in my reasoning. It didn't take long before I'd heard all the arguments against. The only one that really resonated with me was: "I like meat too much, so I don't care to change, even if it's causing harm." I felt like that was honest, and I could respect it. Everything else felt like someone trying to defend their own ego. Now, this was all 20 years ago. So maybe people have softened to the idea some. Or at least are used to it enough that they wouldn't have as much the same reactions today.

Aromasin 5y ago
I agree that the fact it's threatening is the key issue. It was threatening to me for years before I took the leap. People have softened to the idea, but it is still the only stance I hold that I still get either rigorously questioned or belittled for - despite all the commercial and cultural support that continues to grow for it. This doesn't happen for any other political, ethical, or religious stance I hold - such confrontation would be frowned upon under normal circumstances, so there must be a reason for such a trigger. We are now actively weighing the benefits versus the costs of animal agriculture in a different light, because for the first time in our history we are, by in large, no longer reliant on it for our survival as individuals. A young philosophy YouTuber of all people (Alex O'Connor) was the one who put the ethics of veganism in the right light for me; I had already decreased my animal product consumption to almost nothing with it being the leading cause of deforestation and habitat loss, but was not sold on the animal rights front in the slightest. Alex dismantled all my "egotistical" arguments as you put it. I followed it by reading his recommendation of Peter Signers book 'Animal Liberation' which really nailed the coffin as it were. I recommend these videos [1][2] and this book [3] whole-heartedly for those who are on the fence, or even far beyond it but would like a "reasoned" view of veganism rather than the shallow arguments to might hear from your hippie friend or 14 year-old newly vegan niece/nephew. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1vW9iSpLLk&t=192s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1vW9iSpLLk&t=192s [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcVR2OVxPYw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcVR2OVxPYw [3] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29380.Animal_Liberation https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29380.Animal_Liberation
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- cheese_goddess 5y ago
  Sorry but have you noticed that there is a vocal minority of vegans who are very aggressive in the way they promote their ideology? For example, "meat is murder" is not exactly the kind of thing you say when you want to start a calm conversation. So perhaps what you perceive as "threatening" is not the idea of not eating meat but the behaviour of some vegans.
  - Aromasin 5y ago
    No doubt, many vegans are passionate to the point of aggression. However, one can understand that response if you see it through a lens of a vegan. I wouldn't expect the murder of a person to be met with calm conversation for the most part, let alone the consumption of one. For a person who sees the distinction between species as completely arbitrary, having such a conversation would be like yourself having a conversation with a child murderer. Again, I can not recommend the two videos I linked enough. It will give you a great insight to the thinking that often is behind that anger you see in the vocal minority. That point aside however, when I say threatening I mean that it's not uncommon for myself and others to get accosted by someone simply mentioning that we are vegan. Again, there is no other position I hold where I can say nothing at all (I mean this genuinely - I actively avoid the discussion to the point that I will tell people I won't talk about with them), yet I will still be talked at for 30 minutes about how my ethics are wrong. The only comparison I can give is when people are hurled racist or homophobic comments with no provocation. Even within my close friend group, of whom none are vegan, have noticed it and will swiftly interject when it happens. I mean this with all honestly, if I am at a party with say 10 people who I don't know, at least 1 person there will try to talk at me until I find an excuse to leave. To me, it seems like they hold insecurities about their own ethics and are trying to reason their way out of it, as if I were their therapist. It's happens way to often and is frankly bizarre.
    - cheese_goddess 5y ago

by kelp 5y ago

Aromasin 5y ago

I agree that the fact it's threatening is the key issue. It was threatening to me for years before I took the leap. People have softened to the idea, but it is still the only stance I hold that I still get either rigorously questioned or belittled for - despite all the commercial and cultural support that continues to grow for it. This doesn't happen for any other political, ethical, or religious stance I hold - such confrontation would be frowned upon under normal circumstances, so there must be a reason for such a trigger. We are now actively weighing the benefits versus the costs of animal agriculture in a different light, because for the first time in our history we are, by in large, no longer reliant on it for our survival as individuals. A young philosophy YouTuber of all people (Alex O'Connor) was the one who put the ethics of veganism in the right light for me; I had already decreased my animal product consumption to almost nothing with it being the leading cause of deforestation and habitat loss, but was not sold on the animal rights front in the slightest. Alex dismantled all my "egotistical" arguments as you put it. I followed it by reading his recommendation of Peter Signers book 'Animal Liberation' which really nailed the coffin as it were. I recommend these videos [1][2] and this book [3] whole-heartedly for those who are on the fence, or even far beyond it but would like a "reasoned" view of veganism rather than the shallow arguments to might hear from your hippie friend or 14 year-old newly vegan niece/nephew. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1vW9iSpLLk&t=192s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1vW9iSpLLk&t=192s [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcVR2OVxPYw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcVR2OVxPYw [3] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29380.Animal_Liberation https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29380.Animal_Liberation

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
cheese_goddess 5y ago
Sorry but have you noticed that there is a vocal minority of vegans who are very aggressive in the way they promote their ideology? For example, "meat is murder" is not exactly the kind of thing you say when you want to start a calm conversation. So perhaps what you perceive as "threatening" is not the idea of not eating meat but the behaviour of some vegans.
- Aromasin 5y ago
  No doubt, many vegans are passionate to the point of aggression. However, one can understand that response if you see it through a lens of a vegan. I wouldn't expect the murder of a person to be met with calm conversation for the most part, let alone the consumption of one. For a person who sees the distinction between species as completely arbitrary, having such a conversation would be like yourself having a conversation with a child murderer. Again, I can not recommend the two videos I linked enough. It will give you a great insight to the thinking that often is behind that anger you see in the vocal minority. That point aside however, when I say threatening I mean that it's not uncommon for myself and others to get accosted by someone simply mentioning that we are vegan. Again, there is no other position I hold where I can say nothing at all (I mean this genuinely - I actively avoid the discussion to the point that I will tell people I won't talk about with them), yet I will still be talked at for 30 minutes about how my ethics are wrong. The only comparison I can give is when people are hurled racist or homophobic comments with no provocation. Even within my close friend group, of whom none are vegan, have noticed it and will swiftly interject when it happens. I mean this with all honestly, if I am at a party with say 10 people who I don't know, at least 1 person there will try to talk at me until I find an excuse to leave. To me, it seems like they hold insecurities about their own ethics and are trying to reason their way out of it, as if I were their therapist. It's happens way to often and is frankly bizarre.
  - cheese_goddess 5y ago