8 ms·

Reminder that Intuit is an insidious company: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-fr

by voz_ 5y ago

Reminder that Intuit is an insidious company: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...

bserge 5y ago
Does anyone not know that by now?
- michaelcampbell 5y ago
  You still hear people saying "if you're not paying for the service, you're the product" as if they're enlightening people, so <shrug>.
- whoisjuan 5y ago
  Most people think of Intuit as the company that helps them to deal with government bullshit and they are happy to pay for that. The average consumer doesn't know that Intuit has a gross business model that is entirely based on the idea of deliberately keeping bureaucracy alive. They think the exact opposite. They believe Intuit is giving them a solution to deal with the government's outdated and overly-complex tax filing system. And unsurpisingly the government has no issues with being the escape goat on this one, because the way you pay your taxes will never be as politically contentious as determining who gets to pay taxes and how much they pay.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    Anyone else still waiting on their 2020 refund?
- kennywinker 5y ago
  And yet I don't see any real backlash against Grover Norquist's "no new taxes" pledge being applied to "making filing easier / automatic" - which is in my mind a prerequisite to any real improvement on the filing process since essentially half of the government at any given time has only been allowed to be elected because they promised not to improve things.
divbzero 5y ago
What are the best Mailchimp alternatives for those who do not want to support Intuit in the future?
- mattwad 5y ago
  Mailgun
  - donmcronald 5y ago
    And since they already screwed all their free users and early adopters you don't have to worry about it happening again (for a while).
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    I tried them a few years ago, everything was great except the email servers in the free tier had terrible reputation and most of what I sent was rejected by the receiving side. I guess that's to be expected, free tiers of any email services are going to be horribly abused. Hopefully the paid service is better.
- giovannibonetti 5y ago
  Postmark
- andrewljohnson 5y ago
  Something like Braze (or many competitors) will do all sorts of messaging. It really depends on your business... variables like do you just want to do email, or do you want to message in app or on website too? Selling physical goods? There are a million ways to do app or marketing automation comms.
- savrajsingh 5y ago
  Klaviyo is ok, way cheaper than braze
- fosron 5y ago
  Mailerlite is good and way cheaper (p.s i do work for the parent company)
yunesj 5y ago
IIRC from the last time I read it, the article only provides evidence for Intuit not wanting taxpayers (including themselves) to fund a competitor to their product, which is very reasonable. I also don't want the government to get in the business of writing tax software.
- gnulinux 5y ago
  If the government is in the business of collecting tax from 300+ million people and has power to punish these people if they don't, government already is in the business of writing tax software.
- occz 5y ago
  > I also don't want the government to get in the business of writing tax software. Filing taxes in the rest of the developed world is essentially a one-click process, because every tax authority in the rest of the developed world already have all the information necessary to create such software (and so does the IRS). This is a problem entirely caused by lobbying efforts. It literally does not exist for the rest of the developed world. Why insist on having it worse than everyone else, for the sole gain of the likes of Intuit? It's baffling to say the least.
  - syshum 5y ago
    I am always baffled by the augment of "well the rest of the developed world does X" Seems to strike me as a lesson I learned when I was young.. "Well if your friends all jumped off the bridge would you?" Simply because other nations do X, is not IMO a valid justification for X...
    - opinion-is-bad 5y ago
      While appeal to consensus is a common logical fallacy, we can make stronger arguments to support government tax software. Tax preparation is 100% deadweight in an economic sense. Nothing useful is created in that time, and yet billions of hours are spent on it each year in the United States. Streamlining the collection of tax revenue seems to be in the best interest of the state and the people, even if a very small minority will be harmed in the process. The additional product of those billions of hours of work time per year would pay enough dividend to cover the development cost virtually overnight.
AlbertCory 5y ago
.. because they lobby to keep taxes complicated? I'm not saying they don't, but don't you think the tax code is complicated because politicians have to be doing something, and they get donations by adding special provisions for their donors? A prerequisite to a simple tax system would be a rate so low that (1) no deductions are necessary, and (2) it's not worth making any special effort to avoid the tax or to cheat. On (1), that's right: no child deduction, no mortgage deduction, no charitable deduction, no state & local tax deduction, no nothing. Just pay 15% of your income, period, full stop. And TurboTax got no further reason to live.
- Denvercoder9 5y ago
  > .. because they lobby to keep taxes complicated? No, because they lobby to keep filing taxes complicated. Yes, taxes most likely will always be complicated, but if there's no artificial barriers to filing (like in most of the rest of the developed world), there can be real competition in the tax-solutions-software space and most likely there'll also be acceptable open-source solutions that can be used for free.
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    OK, fair point.
jet_32951 5y ago
So is Mailchimp. PITA to figure out blocking rules for their spam.

by voz_ 5y ago

bserge 5y ago

Does anyone not know that by now?

michaelcampbell 5y ago
You still hear people saying "if you're not paying for the service, you're the product" as if they're enlightening people, so <shrug>.
whoisjuan 5y ago
Most people think of Intuit as the company that helps them to deal with government bullshit and they are happy to pay for that. The average consumer doesn't know that Intuit has a gross business model that is entirely based on the idea of deliberately keeping bureaucracy alive. They think the exact opposite. They believe Intuit is giving them a solution to deal with the government's outdated and overly-complex tax filing system. And unsurpisingly the government has no issues with being the escape goat on this one, because the way you pay your taxes will never be as politically contentious as determining who gets to pay taxes and how much they pay.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Anyone else still waiting on their 2020 refund?
kennywinker 5y ago
And yet I don't see any real backlash against Grover Norquist's "no new taxes" pledge being applied to "making filing easier / automatic" - which is in my mind a prerequisite to any real improvement on the filing process since essentially half of the government at any given time has only been allowed to be elected because they promised not to improve things.

divbzero 5y ago

What are the best Mailchimp alternatives for those who do not want to support Intuit in the future?

mattwad 5y ago
Mailgun
- donmcronald 5y ago
  And since they already screwed all their free users and early adopters you don't have to worry about it happening again (for a while).
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  I tried them a few years ago, everything was great except the email servers in the free tier had terrible reputation and most of what I sent was rejected by the receiving side. I guess that's to be expected, free tiers of any email services are going to be horribly abused. Hopefully the paid service is better.
giovannibonetti 5y ago
Postmark
andrewljohnson 5y ago
Something like Braze (or many competitors) will do all sorts of messaging. It really depends on your business... variables like do you just want to do email, or do you want to message in app or on website too? Selling physical goods? There are a million ways to do app or marketing automation comms.
savrajsingh 5y ago
Klaviyo is ok, way cheaper than braze
fosron 5y ago
Mailerlite is good and way cheaper (p.s i do work for the parent company)

yunesj 5y ago

IIRC from the last time I read it, the article only provides evidence for Intuit not wanting taxpayers (including themselves) to fund a competitor to their product, which is very reasonable. I also don't want the government to get in the business of writing tax software.

gnulinux 5y ago
If the government is in the business of collecting tax from 300+ million people and has power to punish these people if they don't, government already is in the business of writing tax software.
occz 5y ago
> I also don't want the government to get in the business of writing tax software. Filing taxes in the rest of the developed world is essentially a one-click process, because every tax authority in the rest of the developed world already have all the information necessary to create such software (and so does the IRS). This is a problem entirely caused by lobbying efforts. It literally does not exist for the rest of the developed world. Why insist on having it worse than everyone else, for the sole gain of the likes of Intuit? It's baffling to say the least.
- syshum 5y ago
  I am always baffled by the augment of "well the rest of the developed world does X" Seems to strike me as a lesson I learned when I was young.. "Well if your friends all jumped off the bridge would you?" Simply because other nations do X, is not IMO a valid justification for X...
  - opinion-is-bad 5y ago
    While appeal to consensus is a common logical fallacy, we can make stronger arguments to support government tax software. Tax preparation is 100% deadweight in an economic sense. Nothing useful is created in that time, and yet billions of hours are spent on it each year in the United States. Streamlining the collection of tax revenue seems to be in the best interest of the state and the people, even if a very small minority will be harmed in the process. The additional product of those billions of hours of work time per year would pay enough dividend to cover the development cost virtually overnight.

AlbertCory 5y ago

.. because they lobby to keep taxes complicated? I'm not saying they don't, but don't you think the tax code is complicated because politicians have to be doing something, and they get donations by adding special provisions for their donors? A prerequisite to a simple tax system would be a rate so low that (1) no deductions are necessary, and (2) it's not worth making any special effort to avoid the tax or to cheat. On (1), that's right: no child deduction, no mortgage deduction, no charitable deduction, no state & local tax deduction, no nothing. Just pay 15% of your income, period, full stop. And TurboTax got no further reason to live.

Denvercoder9 5y ago
> .. because they lobby to keep taxes complicated? No, because they lobby to keep filing taxes complicated. Yes, taxes most likely will always be complicated, but if there's no artificial barriers to filing (like in most of the rest of the developed world), there can be real competition in the tax-solutions-software space and most likely there'll also be acceptable open-source solutions that can be used for free.
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  OK, fair point.

jet_32951 5y ago

So is Mailchimp. PITA to figure out blocking rules for their spam.