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I am tangentially involved with horses-- We have a guy who is able to to open any stall he wants, and he opens the stalls of other horses that he likes. As evi

I am tangentially involved with horses-- We have a guy who is able to to open any stall he wants, and he opens the stalls of other horses that he likes. As evidenced by the fact that he would open his own stall and then let a certain set of horses out. If that wasn't amazing enough... He got into a conflict with another horse (nipping at each other), and he stopped letting that guy out of his stall. Livestock is... complicated. Horses collectively are unreasonably stupid. But some individuals are amazing. Before I came into contact with them, I thought they all were "Glassy eyed dinosaurs". It's a weird trick because you see people make declarative statements about them, up to and including they aren't able to recognize people. But, when you work with them its absolutely clear they have preferences. They prefer certain riders and certain activities.

chasd00 5y ago
i've wondered if the intelligence in animals varies just like the intelligence in humans. I don't see any reason why not. Maybe you had the DaVinci of horses in your stable?
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  Of course, everything varies. E.g.: Our neighbor has two cats. One is very needy and craves our attention. The other rarely acknowledges people and spends its free time in stalking mode.
- pvarangot 5y ago
  Also animals go through a lot of traumatic episodes as they are being raised. If like 90% of human males where castrated by other males with a power drill without anesthesia in a stage in life where they are obviously able to learn things and interact with other humans I think in general social intelligence would be lower among humans.
teawrecks 5y ago
> As evidenced by the fact that he would open his own stall and then let a certain set of horses out. Was the set independent of what stalls they were in? Or were they always in the same stalls? If the latter, it could just be that he knows he can open some stalls more readily than others.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Or were they always in the same stalls? If the latter, it could just be that he knows he can open some stalls more readily than others. That wouldn't account for it, since he changed who he'd let out based on his personal relationship with the individual in the stall.
planet-and-halo 5y ago
Intelligence, and animal intelligence in particular, is a very complicated topic. But I definitely suspect a nontrivial percentage of people who assume animals are dumb are doing it because of the mismatch in non-verbal cues. I for example often find myself completely unable to parse the facial expressions and body language of my cat, yet she is very obviously a reasonably intelligent animal.
- DFHippie 5y ago
  Worse, they interpret their gestures and expressions as intentional and human -- the cat is smiling/laughing/frowning. Or the cat's failure to smile/laugh/frown (because it lacks the facial muscles to do so) are an indication of its cold, calculating nature. People interpret other people's expressions rapidly and instinctively and they unconsciously misapply this same skill to animals. Perhaps people on the spectrum understand animals better, a la Temple Grandin, not because they are more like animals, but because they aren't misapplying skills which they lack, mind blindness in this case being better than mind hallucinations.
  - naniwaduni 5y ago
    Not just human—like themselves. Not all humans are quite as much like one another as they tend to assume either!
- freeone3000 5y ago
  That's a shame -- cat body language is incredibly expressive! The tail gives away so much, as does the line of the body... It's definitely worth finding a quick guide when you have the time. It's also interesting to note that domestic cat vocalizations are used primarily to communicate with humans! They notice we use speech, so they do too! And while some meows are common, others vary between cats -- it's like their very own language to talk to their owner.
- Maursault 5y ago
  > Intelligence, and animal intelligence in particular... As opposed to? I read this the same as "circles, and round circles in particular...." Is there any other kind?
cushychicken 5y ago
Individual horses can have wonderful personalities. Once I got over how unsettling I find their physical size, I really got to enjoy their character. The ones that like people tend to be very curious and friendly. Plenty of them don't like people, though. (And many for good reason.)
- Baeocystin 5y ago
  I used to live on a horse ranch, and honestly, it made me dislike horses in general. There were a few that were enjoyable to be around (the draft horses, despite being the biggest, were genuinely friendly), but the bulk were just plain jerks. What really surprised me was how friendly and fun the donkeys were. The one that did coyote patrol for the emus always made hilarious happy-donkey sounds whenever he saw me walk the fence line, and it was nice to be able to work in his paddock and have a buddy to hang out with instead of a sneak horse-nip while you're focused on something else.
  - cushychicken 5y ago
    I've never found a donkey that really liked me before and it bums me out. Donkeys have so much personality.
    - Baeocystin 5y ago
      I sincerely hope you get to meet one some day. When one has a personality you click with, they are a blast to be around.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
We have a mountian top in my county that was saved from development, and was permently zoned to only allow horses to inhabitate. There are a few houses that butt up to the area. The horses have owners, and people stop to pet them. One night a home owner heard a horse yelllng out his window. He didn't think that much about it, but the horse would stop yelling. He shined a flash light on him, and decided to call one of the other horse hill owners. The owner finally arrived, and brought a vet. The horse's stomach twisted. The vet fixed him. Whenever that guy goes out on his porch, the horse runs up to him. Almost out of respect?

chasd00 5y ago

i've wondered if the intelligence in animals varies just like the intelligence in humans. I don't see any reason why not. Maybe you had the DaVinci of horses in your stable?

mixmastamyk 5y ago
Of course, everything varies. E.g.: Our neighbor has two cats. One is very needy and craves our attention. The other rarely acknowledges people and spends its free time in stalking mode.
pvarangot 5y ago
Also animals go through a lot of traumatic episodes as they are being raised. If like 90% of human males where castrated by other males with a power drill without anesthesia in a stage in life where they are obviously able to learn things and interact with other humans I think in general social intelligence would be lower among humans.

teawrecks 5y ago

> As evidenced by the fact that he would open his own stall and then let a certain set of horses out. Was the set independent of what stalls they were in? Or were they always in the same stalls? If the latter, it could just be that he knows he can open some stalls more readily than others.

tablespoon 5y ago
> Or were they always in the same stalls? If the latter, it could just be that he knows he can open some stalls more readily than others. That wouldn't account for it, since he changed who he'd let out based on his personal relationship with the individual in the stall.

planet-and-halo 5y ago

Intelligence, and animal intelligence in particular, is a very complicated topic. But I definitely suspect a nontrivial percentage of people who assume animals are dumb are doing it because of the mismatch in non-verbal cues. I for example often find myself completely unable to parse the facial expressions and body language of my cat, yet she is very obviously a reasonably intelligent animal.

DFHippie 5y ago
Worse, they interpret their gestures and expressions as intentional and human -- the cat is smiling/laughing/frowning. Or the cat's failure to smile/laugh/frown (because it lacks the facial muscles to do so) are an indication of its cold, calculating nature. People interpret other people's expressions rapidly and instinctively and they unconsciously misapply this same skill to animals. Perhaps people on the spectrum understand animals better, a la Temple Grandin, not because they are more like animals, but because they aren't misapplying skills which they lack, mind blindness in this case being better than mind hallucinations.
- naniwaduni 5y ago
  Not just human—like themselves. Not all humans are quite as much like one another as they tend to assume either!
freeone3000 5y ago
That's a shame -- cat body language is incredibly expressive! The tail gives away so much, as does the line of the body... It's definitely worth finding a quick guide when you have the time. It's also interesting to note that domestic cat vocalizations are used primarily to communicate with humans! They notice we use speech, so they do too! And while some meows are common, others vary between cats -- it's like their very own language to talk to their owner.
Maursault 5y ago
> Intelligence, and animal intelligence in particular... As opposed to? I read this the same as "circles, and round circles in particular...." Is there any other kind?

cushychicken 5y ago

Individual horses can have wonderful personalities. Once I got over how unsettling I find their physical size, I really got to enjoy their character. The ones that like people tend to be very curious and friendly. Plenty of them don't like people, though. (And many for good reason.)

Baeocystin 5y ago
I used to live on a horse ranch, and honestly, it made me dislike horses in general. There were a few that were enjoyable to be around (the draft horses, despite being the biggest, were genuinely friendly), but the bulk were just plain jerks. What really surprised me was how friendly and fun the donkeys were. The one that did coyote patrol for the emus always made hilarious happy-donkey sounds whenever he saw me walk the fence line, and it was nice to be able to work in his paddock and have a buddy to hang out with instead of a sneak horse-nip while you're focused on something else.
- cushychicken 5y ago
  I've never found a donkey that really liked me before and it bums me out. Donkeys have so much personality.
  - Baeocystin 5y ago
    I sincerely hope you get to meet one some day. When one has a personality you click with, they are a blast to be around.

hellbannedguy 5y ago

We have a mountian top in my county that was saved from development, and was permently zoned to only allow horses to inhabitate. There are a few houses that butt up to the area. The horses have owners, and people stop to pet them. One night a home owner heard a horse yelllng out his window. He didn't think that much about it, but the horse would stop yelling. He shined a flash light on him, and decided to call one of the other horse hill owners. The owner finally arrived, and brought a vet. The horse's stomach twisted. The vet fixed him. Whenever that guy goes out on his porch, the horse runs up to him. Almost out of respect?