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> A points-based immigration program would allow the country to optimize along any number of axes: under-represented minorities, skills, etc. That's what the c

> A points-based immigration program would allow the country to optimize along any number of axes: under-represented minorities, skills, etc. That's what the cap is for. > Canada brings in 3x as many immigrants per capita as the US does. It's brought in 1% of its population each year for roughly the last 100 years - so the equivalent of 3-4M green cards per year. Almost every week there's a thread with Canadian Engineers whining about low pay. How are these out of control immigration quotas helping them out?

arcticbull 5y ago
> That's what the cap is for. Yes, but it selects for the wrong things. It's an axe when you need a scalpel. > Almost every week there's a thread with Canadian Engineers whining about low pay. How are these out of control immigration quotas helping them out? What on earth do you mean "out of control" lol. That's a value judgement you made that you're projecting. Canada has low inequality. Most people are paid roughly the same amount - in line with much of Western Europe. The US is closer to PNG, the Philippines, Turkey and Madagascar. You can't have low inequality and high pay for one group. [1] Canadians value that. You don't, and that's ok too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > You can't have low inequality and high pay for one group. You also can't have overachievers. This becomes obvious when looking at academia. [0] These individuals are the ones bootstrapping entire businesses and economic sectors. [0] https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-global-brain-trade https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-global-brain-trade
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Of course you can have overachievers, I suspect this is a very American perspective. Japan Airlines' CEO makes $90K a year. Money isn't the be all and end all, promotions come with more pay and more social status. [edit] did you not have overachievers in high school and college? I suspect they weren't getting paid! Quite the opposite.
- refurb 5y ago
  As a Canadian that’s hilarious. “Were going to pay you much less than other countries do and we’re actually doing you a favor”.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Nobody said anything about doing anyone any favors. I said that the wealth inequality was lower, and inequality being lower by definition requires that pay bands are compressed. Keep in mind that when you compare against international salaries, you have to convert not just to a neutral currency, but also adjust for PPP. Canada's PPP adjustment factor is close to +15%. That is to say, 1 USD goes 15% further in Canada than it does in America. There are pros and cons to a more egalitarian society. Certain groups that would do better in other countries do worse, and in exchange certain groups that would do worse in other countries do better. Per Levels.fyi a: - Shopify L7 makes $324K USD ($372K PPP). - That's a Google L5 at $356K. - A Facebook E5 at $390K. - Or a Microsoft level 65 at $287K. Remote changes the game a bit here, but in the past your Shopify L7 would have gone infinitely further in Ottawa than your Facebook E5 would have gone down in MPK. Local PPP matters too.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      Isn't the biggest budget item housing?
    - refurb 5y ago
      You accounting for taxes? HST? Gasoline taxes? The general higher cost of anything imported? How about the recent run up in housing costs? Houses are about as expensive in Toronto as they are the Bay area now. Having worked in both countries, $300k USD goes way further in the US than $300k CAD in Canada. And that's even accounting for the housing difference.
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        > You accounting for taxes? Yes, taxes are very comparable in California and New York on this income level. 400,000 CAD in Ontario is taxed at a net effective 44.8%. In BC 43.8% In California you'd be taxed at an effective 42%. In New York you'd be taxed at an effective 43.2%. And after the Biden tax hikes go into effect this starts to look a lot worse. Not to mention the Canadian tax bill includes healthcare whereas the US salary is reduced by $12,000 a year to account for it. > HST? Gasoline? The general higher cost of anything imported? You're making $400K a year and you think that a $55 average monthly gas bill is going to make a difference? Yes this is all factored into the PPP adjustment. [1] > How about the recent run up in housing costs? It happened in both countries. > Having worked in both countries, $300k USD goes way further in the US than $300k CAD in Canada. I suspect this isn't true. Now you can cherry-pick non-tech cities in the US, but I can do that with Canada too, and of course, the vast majority of tech folks have historically chosen to live in NY and CA for a reason. Will that hold? Who knows! [1] https://www.oecd.org/sdd/prices-ppp/purchasingpowerparities-frequentlyaskedquestionsfaqs.htm https://www.oecd.org/sdd/prices-ppp/purchasingpowerparities-...

arcticbull 5y ago

> That's what the cap is for. Yes, but it selects for the wrong things. It's an axe when you need a scalpel. > Almost every week there's a thread with Canadian Engineers whining about low pay. How are these out of control immigration quotas helping them out? What on earth do you mean "out of control" lol. That's a value judgement you made that you're projecting. Canada has low inequality. Most people are paid roughly the same amount - in line with much of Western Europe. The US is closer to PNG, the Philippines, Turkey and Madagascar. You can't have low inequality and high pay for one group. [1] Canadians value that. You don't, and that's ok too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...

908B64B197 5y ago
> You can't have low inequality and high pay for one group. You also can't have overachievers. This becomes obvious when looking at academia. [0] These individuals are the ones bootstrapping entire businesses and economic sectors. [0] https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-global-brain-trade https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-global-brain-trade
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Of course you can have overachievers, I suspect this is a very American perspective. Japan Airlines' CEO makes $90K a year. Money isn't the be all and end all, promotions come with more pay and more social status. [edit] did you not have overachievers in high school and college? I suspect they weren't getting paid! Quite the opposite.
refurb 5y ago
As a Canadian that’s hilarious. “Were going to pay you much less than other countries do and we’re actually doing you a favor”.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Nobody said anything about doing anyone any favors. I said that the wealth inequality was lower, and inequality being lower by definition requires that pay bands are compressed. Keep in mind that when you compare against international salaries, you have to convert not just to a neutral currency, but also adjust for PPP. Canada's PPP adjustment factor is close to +15%. That is to say, 1 USD goes 15% further in Canada than it does in America. There are pros and cons to a more egalitarian society. Certain groups that would do better in other countries do worse, and in exchange certain groups that would do worse in other countries do better. Per Levels.fyi a: - Shopify L7 makes $324K USD ($372K PPP). - That's a Google L5 at $356K. - A Facebook E5 at $390K. - Or a Microsoft level 65 at $287K. Remote changes the game a bit here, but in the past your Shopify L7 would have gone infinitely further in Ottawa than your Facebook E5 would have gone down in MPK. Local PPP matters too.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    Isn't the biggest budget item housing?
  - refurb 5y ago
    You accounting for taxes? HST? Gasoline taxes? The general higher cost of anything imported? How about the recent run up in housing costs? Houses are about as expensive in Toronto as they are the Bay area now. Having worked in both countries, $300k USD goes way further in the US than $300k CAD in Canada. And that's even accounting for the housing difference.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      > You accounting for taxes? Yes, taxes are very comparable in California and New York on this income level. 400,000 CAD in Ontario is taxed at a net effective 44.8%. In BC 43.8% In California you'd be taxed at an effective 42%. In New York you'd be taxed at an effective 43.2%. And after the Biden tax hikes go into effect this starts to look a lot worse. Not to mention the Canadian tax bill includes healthcare whereas the US salary is reduced by $12,000 a year to account for it. > HST? Gasoline? The general higher cost of anything imported? You're making $400K a year and you think that a $55 average monthly gas bill is going to make a difference? Yes this is all factored into the PPP adjustment. [1] > How about the recent run up in housing costs? It happened in both countries. > Having worked in both countries, $300k USD goes way further in the US than $300k CAD in Canada. I suspect this isn't true. Now you can cherry-pick non-tech cities in the US, but I can do that with Canada too, and of course, the vast majority of tech folks have historically chosen to live in NY and CA for a reason. Will that hold? Who knows! [1] https://www.oecd.org/sdd/prices-ppp/purchasingpowerparities-frequentlyaskedquestionsfaqs.htm https://www.oecd.org/sdd/prices-ppp/purchasingpowerparities-...