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If this ever happens in the U.S. I won't bother with driving Uber anymore and this would probably put them out of business. The Taxi industry will win back from

If this ever happens in the U.S. I won't bother with driving Uber anymore and this would probably put them out of business. The Taxi industry will win back from the disruption that Uber caused. This has nothing to do with worker's rights. No one gave a crap about Taxi driver's work standards and they are/were treated worse than Uber drivers. This is all about the Taxi industry fighting back. 75% of all ride share drivers would prefer to remain independent. In Chicago, I can make $42/hour driving Uber. I still don't understand how anyone can claim I'm being mistreated.

ChicagoDave 5y ago
I also have never heard a proven argument against Uber. - Uber passengers LOVE the service. Way more than taxi service or public transportation. - Since Uber started, drunk driving injuries/fatalities are down 30%-35%. - Drivers can be anyone with a working car. There is no "interview". You get background checked and your car is inspected. - Drivers get to write off miles. - Drivers get discounts on service at Jiffy Lube and tire stores. Now if people are worried about employment practices, why not look at Walmart, Amazon, Target, and most retail stores. They intentionally staff people with erratic weekly hours, keeping shifts to 4 hours (no breaks or lunches required) and no one reaches 35 hours to enforce benefits. You can't compare Uber to Retail. I'm 100% liberal and support progressive worker protection, but Uber isn't actually hurting anyone. Only the Taxi industry and the cities that used to make a fortune on selling "medallions" to license taxis. In Chicago those were $400k and in NYC they were even more. So imaging you're a Taxi company with 200 medallions. Uber basically just shredded your net worth. That's who has really seen pain. Not workers.
- aqsalose 5y ago
  >Now if people are worried about employment practices, why not look at Walmart, Amazon, Target, and most retail stores. They intentionally staff people with erratic weekly hours, keeping shifts to 4 hours (no breaks or lunches required) and no one reaches 35 hours to enforce benefits. Is there Target in the Netherlands?
  - maslam 5y ago
    No. We respect our workers too much.
  - richwater 5y ago
    > They intentionally staff people with erratic weekly hours, keeping shifts to 4 hours I literally have family members who work full shifts. You're taking anecdotal examples and extrapolating that to the entire retail force. dumb opinion.
    - ChicagoDave 5y ago
      My ex-wife has worked in retail at all levels for 40 years. District managers intentionally force schedules to be broken up so breaks and lunches, outside of managers, are never needed. They intentionally over-hire to make sure they pay the absolute least amount. The average weekly schedule is 30-31 hours and those are broken up into 4 to 6 hour chunks. You may get a break if you're lucky. You may get a lunch if you're on for 8 hours. But the clear direction of the industry is to limit each worker to the least amount of hours, eliminate non-working time, and make sure benefits and overtime are never paid.
      - richwater 5y ago
        You can thank the ACA for that.
        ChicagoDave 5y ago
        The ACA has absolutely nothing to do with employer based healthcare. The cost of healthcare is the direct result of the creation of the HMO laws during Reagan's presidency, allowing hospitals and doctors to make pre-arranged profit oriented agreements that increased insurance costs. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/04/upshot/reagan-deregulation-and-americas-exceptional-rise-in-health-care-costs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/04/upshot/reagan-deregulatio...
- w-j-w 5y ago
  Customers love Uber for the same reason they loved pets.com: the prices are artificially low. A fair comparison between Uber and traditional taxis hasn't happened yet because Uber is hysterically unprofitable.
blueboo 5y ago
A recent study suggests Chicago drivers earn less than minimum wage. > After accounting for driving expenses and self-employment taxes, the average TNP driver in Chicago earns about 3% to 5% less than minimum wage. In 2019, drivers earned $12.30 per hour, or 5% less than the city’s minimum wage of $13 per hour at the time. In 2020, drivers earn slightly above minimum wage, but the hourly rate of pay was artificially inflated due to the reduction of traffic congestion on Chicago roads. With pre-pandemic levels of traffic congestion, drivers would have only earned an hourly wage of $13.62 per hour after expenses and taxes, which is 3% below the city’s minimum wage of $14 per hour at the time. The authors note that the city’s minimum wage will increase to $15 per hour on July 1, 2021. https://illinoisupdate.com/2021/01/26/release-the-average-uber-lyft-driver-earns-less-than-minimum-wage-in-chicago/ https://illinoisupdate.com/2021/01/26/release-the-average-ub... Hm.
- kristopolous 5y ago
  Well good thing independent contractors are exempt from minimum wage laws! And union protections, mandatory breaks, sick days, workers compensation, health insurance, overtime pay, discrimination law, unemployment insurance, employer liabilities to social security pay... Wait a minute, I think this is intentional! Can you imagine an employer trying to subvert the gains of the labor movement?!
  - ChicagoDave 5y ago
    Uber isn't subverting the labor movement. It's a very small part of the overall economy. Go look at bigger industry practices to find the bad guys. The Uber model will never translate to Retail, Tech, Banking, Finance, Healthcare. It does translate to transportation, food and package delivery. Let the disruption make capitalism more efficient. Focus on areas where a balance is important, like making healthcare and college universally free.
- Manuel_D 5y ago
  So it's unskilled labor that offers the same (+/- a single digit percentage) pay after expenses as compared to other minimum wage jobs, but offers substantially better flexibility of hours. I can still see why plenty of people would prefer it to flipping burgers.
dml2135 5y ago
Do you mind if I ask your methodology for the $42/hour number? Do you take your vehicle's depreciation into account?
- ChicagoDave 5y ago
  If I subtract my entire vehicle cost over three years, I’m still making $25/hr or more. But everyone seems to forget that it’s the independence that driver’s love. I can turn the app on/off whenever I feel like it. That’s a level of freedom that no other “job” offers.

ChicagoDave 5y ago

I also have never heard a proven argument against Uber. - Uber passengers LOVE the service. Way more than taxi service or public transportation. - Since Uber started, drunk driving injuries/fatalities are down 30%-35%. - Drivers can be anyone with a working car. There is no "interview". You get background checked and your car is inspected. - Drivers get to write off miles. - Drivers get discounts on service at Jiffy Lube and tire stores. Now if people are worried about employment practices, why not look at Walmart, Amazon, Target, and most retail stores. They intentionally staff people with erratic weekly hours, keeping shifts to 4 hours (no breaks or lunches required) and no one reaches 35 hours to enforce benefits. You can't compare Uber to Retail. I'm 100% liberal and support progressive worker protection, but Uber isn't actually hurting anyone. Only the Taxi industry and the cities that used to make a fortune on selling "medallions" to license taxis. In Chicago those were $400k and in NYC they were even more. So imaging you're a Taxi company with 200 medallions. Uber basically just shredded your net worth. That's who has really seen pain. Not workers.

aqsalose 5y ago
>Now if people are worried about employment practices, why not look at Walmart, Amazon, Target, and most retail stores. They intentionally staff people with erratic weekly hours, keeping shifts to 4 hours (no breaks or lunches required) and no one reaches 35 hours to enforce benefits. Is there Target in the Netherlands?
- maslam 5y ago
  No. We respect our workers too much.
- richwater 5y ago
  > They intentionally staff people with erratic weekly hours, keeping shifts to 4 hours I literally have family members who work full shifts. You're taking anecdotal examples and extrapolating that to the entire retail force. dumb opinion.
  - ChicagoDave 5y ago
    My ex-wife has worked in retail at all levels for 40 years. District managers intentionally force schedules to be broken up so breaks and lunches, outside of managers, are never needed. They intentionally over-hire to make sure they pay the absolute least amount. The average weekly schedule is 30-31 hours and those are broken up into 4 to 6 hour chunks. You may get a break if you're lucky. You may get a lunch if you're on for 8 hours. But the clear direction of the industry is to limit each worker to the least amount of hours, eliminate non-working time, and make sure benefits and overtime are never paid.
    - richwater 5y ago
      You can thank the ACA for that.
      - ChicagoDave 5y ago
        The ACA has absolutely nothing to do with employer based healthcare. The cost of healthcare is the direct result of the creation of the HMO laws during Reagan's presidency, allowing hospitals and doctors to make pre-arranged profit oriented agreements that increased insurance costs. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/04/upshot/reagan-deregulation-and-americas-exceptional-rise-in-health-care-costs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/04/upshot/reagan-deregulatio...
w-j-w 5y ago
Customers love Uber for the same reason they loved pets.com: the prices are artificially low. A fair comparison between Uber and traditional taxis hasn't happened yet because Uber is hysterically unprofitable.

blueboo 5y ago

A recent study suggests Chicago drivers earn less than minimum wage. > After accounting for driving expenses and self-employment taxes, the average TNP driver in Chicago earns about 3% to 5% less than minimum wage. In 2019, drivers earned $12.30 per hour, or 5% less than the city’s minimum wage of $13 per hour at the time. In 2020, drivers earn slightly above minimum wage, but the hourly rate of pay was artificially inflated due to the reduction of traffic congestion on Chicago roads. With pre-pandemic levels of traffic congestion, drivers would have only earned an hourly wage of $13.62 per hour after expenses and taxes, which is 3% below the city’s minimum wage of $14 per hour at the time. The authors note that the city’s minimum wage will increase to $15 per hour on July 1, 2021. https://illinoisupdate.com/2021/01/26/release-the-average-uber-lyft-driver-earns-less-than-minimum-wage-in-chicago/ https://illinoisupdate.com/2021/01/26/release-the-average-ub... Hm.

kristopolous 5y ago
Well good thing independent contractors are exempt from minimum wage laws! And union protections, mandatory breaks, sick days, workers compensation, health insurance, overtime pay, discrimination law, unemployment insurance, employer liabilities to social security pay... Wait a minute, I think this is intentional! Can you imagine an employer trying to subvert the gains of the labor movement?!
- ChicagoDave 5y ago
  Uber isn't subverting the labor movement. It's a very small part of the overall economy. Go look at bigger industry practices to find the bad guys. The Uber model will never translate to Retail, Tech, Banking, Finance, Healthcare. It does translate to transportation, food and package delivery. Let the disruption make capitalism more efficient. Focus on areas where a balance is important, like making healthcare and college universally free.
Manuel_D 5y ago
So it's unskilled labor that offers the same (+/- a single digit percentage) pay after expenses as compared to other minimum wage jobs, but offers substantially better flexibility of hours. I can still see why plenty of people would prefer it to flipping burgers.

dml2135 5y ago

Do you mind if I ask your methodology for the $42/hour number? Do you take your vehicle's depreciation into account?

ChicagoDave 5y ago
If I subtract my entire vehicle cost over three years, I’m still making $25/hr or more. But everyone seems to forget that it’s the independence that driver’s love. I can turn the app on/off whenever I feel like it. That’s a level of freedom that no other “job” offers.