39 ms·

Jupiter’s energy crisis solved: Auroras roast upper atmosphere

66 points by wglb 5y ago

Jun8 5y ago
“ Based solely on Jupiter’s distance from the sun, its upper atmosphere should be about -100 F (-73 C). But observations show Jupiter’s upper atmosphere instead soars to temperatures of 800 F (426 C).” Many have thought about life in the upper parts of Jupiter’s atmosphere (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_in_fiction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_in_fiction). There’s some water, it’s hot, and the super lightning bolts add extra energy. The main problem it seems for small microorganisms is staying at the hospitable height: https://www.missionjuno.swri.edu/jupiter/atmosphere?show=hs_jupiter_atmosphere_story_is-there-life-on-jupiter https://www.missionjuno.swri.edu/jupiter/atmosphere?show=hs_... If there’s some sort of pocket/eddy that keeps a portion of the atmosphere at constant height continuously that might be a suitable place for early life.
criticaltinker 5y ago
There's a wide body of scientific evidence supporting the fact that electromagnetic forces have a significant impact at many scales throughout the solar system and cosmos. It has been observed, since at least the early 70s, that the Sun's electric field induces auroras, radiation belts [0], and convection in planetary magnetospheres [1][2]. The OP title might be a little sensational by calling this an energy crisis - but the photos of the heat bands were really interesting IMO. I admire movements like the Electric Universe Theory [3] for spreading awareness of plasma cosmology, magnetohydrodynamics, etc. I think in the future there will be an ecosystem around solar space weather, [4] is an example of such. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt [1] https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/RG007i001p00421 https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/RG00... [2] https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19700002717/downloads/19700002717.pdf?attachment=true https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19700002717/downloads/19... [3] https://www.electricuniverse.info/peer-reviewed-papers/ https://www.electricuniverse.info/peer-reviewed-papers/ [4] https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/ https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/
- tomrod 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure the Electric Universe Theory is fancy pseudoscience. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Electric_Universe https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Electric_Universe
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Do they not teach Landau damping in engineering classes?
downWidOutaFite 5y ago
Probably ignorant question but, from a thermodynamic perspective does this mean that the planet captures more solar energy because of magnetic interactions with solar wind particles than is predicted purely from electromagnetic radiation?
- michaelsbradley 5y ago
  There's a longstanding concern that the physics of electrical currents in large-scale plasmas (at solar system, interstellar, even intergalactic scales!) and corresponding magnetic fields — in sheets and filaments, which organize spontaneously according to the laws of nature, and involve powerful long-range interactions between them — has not received the attention it should, primarily because during the many decades in which the current "majority mindshare" astrophysics evolved, it was extremely difficult to attempt to model/test those concerns, with respect to both extreme computational complexity (super computers needed) and the fact such interactions don't readily boil down to simple/er models, which are easier for humans to iterate upon. In effect, many astronomical observations are analyzed through a conceptual lens that reduces cause-effect to gravitation and resulting heat, i.e. something "sparkling in x-rays" must be accounted for by acceleration ultimately caused by gravity, or an explosion resulting from extreme gravity.
vncecartersknee 5y ago
Dunno why but I love the phrase "Roast Jupiter" sounds like it would taste really nice
- saithound 5y ago
  Interesting. I guess the appeal of "Roast Jupiter" might be related to (what SMBC calls) the Detroit rule [1]. Or the logical next step after the Deep-fried Mars bar. [1] https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-10-25 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-10-25
  - vncecartersknee 5y ago
    Oh, thats great haha.

66 points by wglb 5y ago

Jun8 5y ago

“ Based solely on Jupiter’s distance from the sun, its upper atmosphere should be about -100 F (-73 C). But observations show Jupiter’s upper atmosphere instead soars to temperatures of 800 F (426 C).” Many have thought about life in the upper parts of Jupiter’s atmosphere (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_in_fiction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_in_fiction). There’s some water, it’s hot, and the super lightning bolts add extra energy. The main problem it seems for small microorganisms is staying at the hospitable height: https://www.missionjuno.swri.edu/jupiter/atmosphere?show=hs_jupiter_atmosphere_story_is-there-life-on-jupiter https://www.missionjuno.swri.edu/jupiter/atmosphere?show=hs_... If there’s some sort of pocket/eddy that keeps a portion of the atmosphere at constant height continuously that might be a suitable place for early life.

criticaltinker 5y ago

There's a wide body of scientific evidence supporting the fact that electromagnetic forces have a significant impact at many scales throughout the solar system and cosmos. It has been observed, since at least the early 70s, that the Sun's electric field induces auroras, radiation belts [0], and convection in planetary magnetospheres [1][2]. The OP title might be a little sensational by calling this an energy crisis - but the photos of the heat bands were really interesting IMO. I admire movements like the Electric Universe Theory [3] for spreading awareness of plasma cosmology, magnetohydrodynamics, etc. I think in the future there will be an ecosystem around solar space weather, [4] is an example of such. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt [1] https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/RG007i001p00421 https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/RG00... [2] https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19700002717/downloads/19700002717.pdf?attachment=true https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19700002717/downloads/19... [3] https://www.electricuniverse.info/peer-reviewed-papers/ https://www.electricuniverse.info/peer-reviewed-papers/ [4] https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/ https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/

tomrod 5y ago
I'm pretty sure the Electric Universe Theory is fancy pseudoscience. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Electric_Universe https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Electric_Universe
selimthegrim 5y ago
Do they not teach Landau damping in engineering classes?

downWidOutaFite 5y ago

Probably ignorant question but, from a thermodynamic perspective does this mean that the planet captures more solar energy because of magnetic interactions with solar wind particles than is predicted purely from electromagnetic radiation?

michaelsbradley 5y ago
There's a longstanding concern that the physics of electrical currents in large-scale plasmas (at solar system, interstellar, even intergalactic scales!) and corresponding magnetic fields — in sheets and filaments, which organize spontaneously according to the laws of nature, and involve powerful long-range interactions between them — has not received the attention it should, primarily because during the many decades in which the current "majority mindshare" astrophysics evolved, it was extremely difficult to attempt to model/test those concerns, with respect to both extreme computational complexity (super computers needed) and the fact such interactions don't readily boil down to simple/er models, which are easier for humans to iterate upon. In effect, many astronomical observations are analyzed through a conceptual lens that reduces cause-effect to gravitation and resulting heat, i.e. something "sparkling in x-rays" must be accounted for by acceleration ultimately caused by gravity, or an explosion resulting from extreme gravity.

vncecartersknee 5y ago

Dunno why but I love the phrase "Roast Jupiter" sounds like it would taste really nice

saithound 5y ago
Interesting. I guess the appeal of "Roast Jupiter" might be related to (what SMBC calls) the Detroit rule [1]. Or the logical next step after the Deep-fried Mars bar. [1] https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-10-25 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-10-25
- vncecartersknee 5y ago
  Oh, thats great haha.