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> The most insidious pattern of mindless engagement is when you're bored at the checkout line, waiting in-between meetings with nothing to do, sitting on the to

> The most insidious pattern of mindless engagement is when you're bored at the checkout line, waiting in-between meetings with nothing to do, sitting on the toilet. Just curious, why is this considered the "most insidious"? Isn't that time wasted anyway? Before cellphones you would just stare off into space (you're not getting any deep thinking or deep work done waiting in line) or would just browse the gum or trash magazines. > computer access only, never mobile This one definitely makes sense. It was interesting time when Facebook was around but smartphones weren't fully ubiquitous. You would only see your feed on the laptop and had to text friends to stay in touch in real-time (even if async)

100011_100001 5y ago
You could think and self-reflect. There is a reason why shower thoughts are a thing, in a society dominated by things that illicit emotional reactions it's hard to have time to just be.
- valbaca 5y ago
  Shower thoughts are great b/c you know nearly exactly how long a shower takes, you're relaxed, doing something basically automatic, and can take longer if you need to. You can also talk to yourself. I guess what I'm saying is I find other moments in my day (shower, sipping my coffee in the morning, the few moments I take after I close my work laptop but before I start my evening, journaling, jogging or walking) to be much more effective and rewarding for thinking and self-reflection. Those times give insight and clarity. Not out in public with the cacophony of other people. Obviously one can do both and more power to them/you. I personally find the worst mind-scrolling is when I could be doing anything else (opportunity cost) not when I'm literally just waiting around.
  - haswell 5y ago
    When out and about, I think it’s less about finding some meaningful insight in that moment, and more about cultivating a habit of being present.
  - 100011_100001 5y ago
    Mowing does it for me as well. It's why I carry a pocket notebook and a pen with me. I avoid apps because distractions can pull me, like an unread text message and I lose my flow of thought. Occasionally I even write pseudo paper that I wrote in my head while doing something else. I think you identified an important part, it's the habit of doing something, while your mind doesn't have to use a lot of horse power. I never thought about it from that perspective, but it rings true.
haswell 5y ago
> Before cellphones you would just stare off into space (you're not getting any deep thinking or deep work done waiting in line) or would just browse the gum or trash magazines. The key is that the "before cellphones" behavior often involved a greater connection to one's immediate surroundings, or being "present". The risk/concern with browsing a phone in these moments is that it promotes disconnection and feeds our brain's need for that next dopamine hit. Some hypothesize that this constant disconnection from "here/now" is part of society's broader problems and people increasingly look at the real world through the lens of social media, which we know to be a major distortion of reality. Disclaimer: anecdote, sample size of one, etc...for me personally, I've been working hard not to fill those idle moments and instead focus on being present and stay in the moment. This could literally be as simple as noticing the variety of gum options in the checkout line. I already have dissociative tendencies due to PTSD, and one of the most effective ways for me to dissociate is to lose myself in the endless scroll. Conversely, staying present/connected to my surroundings helps my mental state immensely.
jefurii 5y ago
Don't know about anyone else, but I've gotten some good ideas and had some nice a-ha! moments during those "default mode network" times.
karaterobot 5y ago
> Just curious, why is this considered the "most insidious"? I think it's insidious not because it is inherently worse to check your phone than it is to stare into space at odd moments (that may be true, but I don't think that was the point). It's insidious because it's not a conscious decision you're making to do something because you want to, it's more like a tic, or a sign of addiction.

100011_100001 5y ago

You could think and self-reflect. There is a reason why shower thoughts are a thing, in a society dominated by things that illicit emotional reactions it's hard to have time to just be.

valbaca 5y ago
Shower thoughts are great b/c you know nearly exactly how long a shower takes, you're relaxed, doing something basically automatic, and can take longer if you need to. You can also talk to yourself. I guess what I'm saying is I find other moments in my day (shower, sipping my coffee in the morning, the few moments I take after I close my work laptop but before I start my evening, journaling, jogging or walking) to be much more effective and rewarding for thinking and self-reflection. Those times give insight and clarity. Not out in public with the cacophony of other people. Obviously one can do both and more power to them/you. I personally find the worst mind-scrolling is when I could be doing anything else (opportunity cost) not when I'm literally just waiting around.
- haswell 5y ago
  When out and about, I think it’s less about finding some meaningful insight in that moment, and more about cultivating a habit of being present.
- 100011_100001 5y ago
  Mowing does it for me as well. It's why I carry a pocket notebook and a pen with me. I avoid apps because distractions can pull me, like an unread text message and I lose my flow of thought. Occasionally I even write pseudo paper that I wrote in my head while doing something else. I think you identified an important part, it's the habit of doing something, while your mind doesn't have to use a lot of horse power. I never thought about it from that perspective, but it rings true.

haswell 5y ago

> Before cellphones you would just stare off into space (you're not getting any deep thinking or deep work done waiting in line) or would just browse the gum or trash magazines. The key is that the "before cellphones" behavior often involved a greater connection to one's immediate surroundings, or being "present". The risk/concern with browsing a phone in these moments is that it promotes disconnection and feeds our brain's need for that next dopamine hit. Some hypothesize that this constant disconnection from "here/now" is part of society's broader problems and people increasingly look at the real world through the lens of social media, which we know to be a major distortion of reality. Disclaimer: anecdote, sample size of one, etc...for me personally, I've been working hard not to fill those idle moments and instead focus on being present and stay in the moment. This could literally be as simple as noticing the variety of gum options in the checkout line. I already have dissociative tendencies due to PTSD, and one of the most effective ways for me to dissociate is to lose myself in the endless scroll. Conversely, staying present/connected to my surroundings helps my mental state immensely.

jefurii 5y ago

Don't know about anyone else, but I've gotten some good ideas and had some nice a-ha! moments during those "default mode network" times.

karaterobot 5y ago

> Just curious, why is this considered the "most insidious"? I think it's insidious not because it is inherently worse to check your phone than it is to stare into space at odd moments (that may be true, but I don't think that was the point). It's insidious because it's not a conscious decision you're making to do something because you want to, it's more like a tic, or a sign of addiction.