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> But all things considered, energy prices do in fact need to be high in order to support faster deployment of renewables and CO2-neutral energy. >Sucks for ev

> But all things considered, energy prices do in fact need to be high in order to support faster deployment of renewables and CO2-neutral energy. >Sucks for everyone who has marginal incomes, but I'm sure we can make some adjustments to the safety net policies to mitigate that. When people complain about policies that screw the middle class this is exactly the kind of stuff they are talking about. The poors scrape by with their vouchers. The middle class flounders until they're poor enough to qualify for the vouchers. Energy, education, healthcare, housing, etc. etc. etc. regardless of the sector the effect is the same. People have a habit of voting against people who screw them once they figure it out. Burning fossil fuels might be unsustainable on a 50yr timeline but squeezing people financially is unsustainable on a 5yr timeline that gets us the worst of both.

radicalbyte 5y ago
In Germany, consumers pay a significantly higher rate than industry.
marvin 5y ago
While I agree in general, I'd argue that energy/climate gas emissions are in its own category, because they represent an unpriced externality that will have terrible consequences if the world doesn't get serious about sustainable solutions very soon. Also keep in mind that my country has an annual national budget of $35,000 per capita, one third of which goes to welfare programs. We practically have a basic income program going already. We're not totally insulated from the forces that besiege the middle class, but I'm pretty sure we're mitigating them as well as anyone. Would love to hear your suggestions on what policies would do better, assuming an intention to prevent catastrophic global climate change.
UglyToad 5y ago
I wonder if something like 'progressive' energy pricing might be a solution here. It's kind of a weird idea but effectively some baseline 'required for living' amount of energy is free and then scales some non-linear amount, e.g. exponentially but not really, as usage increases. So some grandma with her 3 bar electric heater is paying some token amount for her usage over what is deemed 'baseline' but then crypto miners or industry is effectively subsidising everyone and also incentivised to reduce usage more heavily.

radicalbyte 5y ago

In Germany, consumers pay a significantly higher rate than industry.

marvin 5y ago

While I agree in general, I'd argue that energy/climate gas emissions are in its own category, because they represent an unpriced externality that will have terrible consequences if the world doesn't get serious about sustainable solutions very soon. Also keep in mind that my country has an annual national budget of $35,000 per capita, one third of which goes to welfare programs. We practically have a basic income program going already. We're not totally insulated from the forces that besiege the middle class, but I'm pretty sure we're mitigating them as well as anyone. Would love to hear your suggestions on what policies would do better, assuming an intention to prevent catastrophic global climate change.

UglyToad 5y ago

I wonder if something like 'progressive' energy pricing might be a solution here. It's kind of a weird idea but effectively some baseline 'required for living' amount of energy is free and then scales some non-linear amount, e.g. exponentially but not really, as usage increases. So some grandma with her 3 bar electric heater is paying some token amount for her usage over what is deemed 'baseline' but then crypto miners or industry is effectively subsidising everyone and also incentivised to reduce usage more heavily.