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Dude I am old. When I was working with PHP I had to watch out for diffs between 4.x and 5.x servers. Hell, I think we hat some old 3.x code even. Frameworks whe

Dude I am old. When I was working with PHP I had to watch out for diffs between 4.x and 5.x servers. Hell, I think we hat some old 3.x code even. Frameworks where new, composer didn’t exist and I was getting annoyed of getting Paamayim Nekudotayim as an Error because the where limitations in the engine when it comes to finding the static methods of a class instance. Thing is those OLD projects where new when I was working on them. When I got into WordPress back then It was NEW. When I got in to jQuery it had 3% market share and it was the underdog. A lot of the arguments you might be sick of hearing about, well back then they where valid.

dncornholio 5y ago
I was using MooTools before jQuery ever was a thing but you don't hear me complaining about PHP. I love PHP and enjoy working on it each and every day. It's legacy is a hell I agree but quite irrelevant and getting old.
- johntdaly 5y ago
  You can love and enjoy PHP as much as you want, that is ok. I don’t, I’m gone and I wont be back and that should be ok too. It is not meant as a personal attack. Hell, I have a lot of bad stuff to say about JavaScript too and right now I’m writing 100% JavaScript in the frontend and the backend! You know the saying “There are two types of programming languages, the ones you love and the ones you use”. That sort of thing. AND it still doesn’t invalidate my points: 1) PHP is relevant because of the software already written in it and that will not just get rewritten because PHP isn’t HOT anymore. 2) If you are a new PHP developer you are most likely going to be shoved into a job that has more to do with configuring, maintaining and customizing those preexisting systems. 3) Because of that getting from being a beginner PHP dev to an expert PHP dev is going to be harder than it should be. 4) There are going to be less PHP jobs in proportion to its usage out there because so many of the PHP jobs fall into the configuring, maintaining and customizing schema in comparison to other languages.
RobertRoberts 5y ago
I am old also, and I have maintained some PHP code for about 18+ years now. From PHP 4 to PHP 7.4. The changes and improvements are dramatic and wonderful. Improvements in speed, security, error processing, functionality/integration with databases, Composer, etc... While I am not suggesting you go back to PHP, but things are simply not the same anymore.
- johntdaly 5y ago
  I know it is not the same anymore. It doesn’t invalidate my experience from back then and the reason I left the community. And to get a response along the line that, I don’t get to have an opinion because the stuff I worked on was “OLD SHIT” is insulting.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    The reason for that though is that it has changed so much that your old experience is hardly relevant because it is so different now. The Old PHP world and the New PHP world are hardly recognizable as the same thing.
    - johntdaly 5y ago
      1) Would you argue that point with WordPress too? It still looks a lot like the old PHP and it is a big part of those nearly 80% market share. 2) Part of my point was PHP, regardless of what you may think of it, is not bad enough that any of that code needs a rewrite. Still PHP people concentrate on me not liking PHP and argue with me about that and nothing else. Why is the reflex in the PHP community to do this so strong?
      - dncornholio 5y ago
        WordPress sucks ass. It's a cancer and it's growing. But you can use modern PHP in your own theme or plugin if you want.
      - gjsman-1000 5y ago

dncornholio 5y ago

I was using MooTools before jQuery ever was a thing but you don't hear me complaining about PHP. I love PHP and enjoy working on it each and every day. It's legacy is a hell I agree but quite irrelevant and getting old.

johntdaly 5y ago
You can love and enjoy PHP as much as you want, that is ok. I don’t, I’m gone and I wont be back and that should be ok too. It is not meant as a personal attack. Hell, I have a lot of bad stuff to say about JavaScript too and right now I’m writing 100% JavaScript in the frontend and the backend! You know the saying “There are two types of programming languages, the ones you love and the ones you use”. That sort of thing. AND it still doesn’t invalidate my points: 1) PHP is relevant because of the software already written in it and that will not just get rewritten because PHP isn’t HOT anymore. 2) If you are a new PHP developer you are most likely going to be shoved into a job that has more to do with configuring, maintaining and customizing those preexisting systems. 3) Because of that getting from being a beginner PHP dev to an expert PHP dev is going to be harder than it should be. 4) There are going to be less PHP jobs in proportion to its usage out there because so many of the PHP jobs fall into the configuring, maintaining and customizing schema in comparison to other languages.

RobertRoberts 5y ago

I am old also, and I have maintained some PHP code for about 18+ years now. From PHP 4 to PHP 7.4. The changes and improvements are dramatic and wonderful. Improvements in speed, security, error processing, functionality/integration with databases, Composer, etc... While I am not suggesting you go back to PHP, but things are simply not the same anymore.

johntdaly 5y ago
I know it is not the same anymore. It doesn’t invalidate my experience from back then and the reason I left the community. And to get a response along the line that, I don’t get to have an opinion because the stuff I worked on was “OLD SHIT” is insulting.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  The reason for that though is that it has changed so much that your old experience is hardly relevant because it is so different now. The Old PHP world and the New PHP world are hardly recognizable as the same thing.
  - johntdaly 5y ago
    1) Would you argue that point with WordPress too? It still looks a lot like the old PHP and it is a big part of those nearly 80% market share. 2) Part of my point was PHP, regardless of what you may think of it, is not bad enough that any of that code needs a rewrite. Still PHP people concentrate on me not liking PHP and argue with me about that and nothing else. Why is the reflex in the PHP community to do this so strong?
    - dncornholio 5y ago
      WordPress sucks ass. It's a cancer and it's growing. But you can use modern PHP in your own theme or plugin if you want.
    - gjsman-1000 5y ago