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> And scrolling social media on their tablets does NOT build any worthwhile technological competency. This is the most counterintuitive thing that most people

> And scrolling social media on their tablets does NOT build any worthwhile technological competency. This is the most counterintuitive thing that most people don't realize. Early screen exposure to addictive digital content actually reduces the chance that your kid will become a genius with deep understanding of the underlying tech. Early computers were about building, not consuming.

whywhywhywhy 5y ago
Exactly, big difference between figuring out how to find and launch gorillas.bas and how to tap an App Store icon.
sirius87 5y ago
> Early screen exposure to addictive digital content actually reduces the chance that your kid will become a genius with deep understanding of the underlying tech While I agree with this, I'm also skeptical about people trying to cajole a generation to shield them from all that is bad or evil. Growing up, there were a great many things I was not allowed to do, including surfing the net - coz expensive and also so that phone lines would be open. Every generation tries this futile attempt to thrust their opinions authoritatively on the next. All these kids growing up dealing with ads and interstitials could surprise us by, say, being totally immune to advertising.
- II2II 5y ago
  Depending upon your age, surfing the net was expensive and did tie up phone lines when you were a kid. That's not about harm. That's about resources. There were boogiemen in the past. In some respects it was legitimate and in some respects in was overblown. But you have to know the child as an individual to know which category it falls into.
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  > could surprise us by... being totally immune to advertising. "Inflamed hemorrhoidal tissue" "Hey Mikey! He likes it." I still have these committed to permanent memory and will probably carry them to death.
NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
>Early computers were about building, not consuming. How early are we talking about? I'd go out on a limb and say that most kids who owned Commodore 64s (for example) never got much further programming than LOAD “*”,8,1
- Terretta 5y ago
  Depends on the age? My sample size, granted only about a dozen of Commodore 64 and Apple ][ owners, says 100% got at least as far as typing programs in from magazines. More than half made programs to calculate things, about a third made their own video games. Of the total, at least half are engineering now (software, energy, communications), and the video game segment are software engineering leadership. It's not clear to me how to replicate this experience today, though I applaud games such as Human Resource Machine: https://tomorrowcorporation.com/humanresourcemachine https://tomorrowcorporation.com/humanresourcemachine More, all over the map though: https://shecancode.io/coding-games https://shecancode.io/coding-games I think there's something to be said for exposure to coding as a kind of digital literacy that should be required going forward, in a "WTF even is code anyway" sense.
  - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
    I suspect there's a lot of survivor bias in your informal survey. Across all brands, tens of millions of 8-bit systems were sold in the early 80s. The number of users who became engineers is maybe 10% of that - at most. I think it's impossible to reproduce that experience exactly today, because any modern attempt has to compete with many other sources of digital distraction. Minecraft and Roblox probably come closest. (And do a decent job in modern terms.) I suspect psychological, emotional, and digital content literacy - understanding how games and media manipulate beliefs and influence behaviour - is much more important than coding skill today.
    - Terretta 5y ago
      Not seeing the survivor bias. It’s a sample of about a dozen, 30 years ago, all sampled again now. Different nationalities from different walks of life and backgrounds, colocated for a few years in a third world country. What I could see is a few layers of selection bias, as in, expat children of expat parents that would work in third world and buy their children computers and put them in an expat middle school.

whywhywhywhy 5y ago

Exactly, big difference between figuring out how to find and launch gorillas.bas and how to tap an App Store icon.

sirius87 5y ago

> Early screen exposure to addictive digital content actually reduces the chance that your kid will become a genius with deep understanding of the underlying tech While I agree with this, I'm also skeptical about people trying to cajole a generation to shield them from all that is bad or evil. Growing up, there were a great many things I was not allowed to do, including surfing the net - coz expensive and also so that phone lines would be open. Every generation tries this futile attempt to thrust their opinions authoritatively on the next. All these kids growing up dealing with ads and interstitials could surprise us by, say, being totally immune to advertising.

II2II 5y ago
Depending upon your age, surfing the net was expensive and did tie up phone lines when you were a kid. That's not about harm. That's about resources. There were boogiemen in the past. In some respects it was legitimate and in some respects in was overblown. But you have to know the child as an individual to know which category it falls into.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
> could surprise us by... being totally immune to advertising. "Inflamed hemorrhoidal tissue" "Hey Mikey! He likes it." I still have these committed to permanent memory and will probably carry them to death.

NovemberWhiskey 5y ago

>Early computers were about building, not consuming. How early are we talking about? I'd go out on a limb and say that most kids who owned Commodore 64s (for example) never got much further programming than LOAD “*”,8,1

Terretta 5y ago
Depends on the age? My sample size, granted only about a dozen of Commodore 64 and Apple ][ owners, says 100% got at least as far as typing programs in from magazines. More than half made programs to calculate things, about a third made their own video games. Of the total, at least half are engineering now (software, energy, communications), and the video game segment are software engineering leadership. It's not clear to me how to replicate this experience today, though I applaud games such as Human Resource Machine: https://tomorrowcorporation.com/humanresourcemachine https://tomorrowcorporation.com/humanresourcemachine More, all over the map though: https://shecancode.io/coding-games https://shecancode.io/coding-games I think there's something to be said for exposure to coding as a kind of digital literacy that should be required going forward, in a "WTF even is code anyway" sense.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  I suspect there's a lot of survivor bias in your informal survey. Across all brands, tens of millions of 8-bit systems were sold in the early 80s. The number of users who became engineers is maybe 10% of that - at most. I think it's impossible to reproduce that experience exactly today, because any modern attempt has to compete with many other sources of digital distraction. Minecraft and Roblox probably come closest. (And do a decent job in modern terms.) I suspect psychological, emotional, and digital content literacy - understanding how games and media manipulate beliefs and influence behaviour - is much more important than coding skill today.
  - Terretta 5y ago
    Not seeing the survivor bias. It’s a sample of about a dozen, 30 years ago, all sampled again now. Different nationalities from different walks of life and backgrounds, colocated for a few years in a third world country. What I could see is a few layers of selection bias, as in, expat children of expat parents that would work in third world and buy their children computers and put them in an expat middle school.