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As an ex PHP developer, I don’t think it will ever go away. There is just way to much software that was written in PHP (e-commerce, blogs, CMS systems, Nextclou

As an ex PHP developer, I don’t think it will ever go away. There is just way to much software that was written in PHP (e-commerce, blogs, CMS systems, Nextcloud/ownCloud, …) that isn’t going away. PHP isn’t something I ever want to touch again (its libs are wonky and I dislike the syntax choices of the last years) but the execution model was sort of nice before the frameworks (an entry point with a clean state you can work yourself through). The statistics are a bit misleading though. Just because 80% of the sites run PHP in some way doesn’t mean there are that many Jobs. A lot of the work with PHP world is not necessarily going to be PHP work (a lot of HTML, JavaScript and Plugin configuration) and there is complexity in learning your way around a system well enough to build plugins. The jump from beginner to expert has become harder for a new PHP programmer because the real programming is hidden behind a wall of already existing code that just needs to be installed, configured and customized. I’m glad I got out when I did because I get to actually program APIs and Single Page Apps rather than just being a glorified PHP webpage mechanic.

mathattack 5y ago
Good point on jobs vs existing code base. It’s kind of like radio still has a lot of listeners but the amount of new stations isn’t rising as dramatically as other mediums.
dncornholio 5y ago
Why would PHP want to go away? It's developing and there's plenty of software being written in it now and it will continue to do so. There's not much wrong with modern PHP. Symfony and Laravel projects are a joy to work with. The standards and tooling is there too with composer, phpunit, PSR-4. I don't think you've ever been into PHP if you was only wrenching in old projects.
- johntdaly 5y ago
  Dude I am old. When I was working with PHP I had to watch out for diffs between 4.x and 5.x servers. Hell, I think we hat some old 3.x code even. Frameworks where new, composer didn’t exist and I was getting annoyed of getting Paamayim Nekudotayim as an Error because the where limitations in the engine when it comes to finding the static methods of a class instance. Thing is those OLD projects where new when I was working on them. When I got into WordPress back then It was NEW. When I got in to jQuery it had 3% market share and it was the underdog. A lot of the arguments you might be sick of hearing about, well back then they where valid.
  - dncornholio 5y ago
    I was using MooTools before jQuery ever was a thing but you don't hear me complaining about PHP. I love PHP and enjoy working on it each and every day. It's legacy is a hell I agree but quite irrelevant and getting old.
    - johntdaly 5y ago
      You can love and enjoy PHP as much as you want, that is ok. I don’t, I’m gone and I wont be back and that should be ok too. It is not meant as a personal attack. Hell, I have a lot of bad stuff to say about JavaScript too and right now I’m writing 100% JavaScript in the frontend and the backend! You know the saying “There are two types of programming languages, the ones you love and the ones you use”. That sort of thing. AND it still doesn’t invalidate my points: 1) PHP is relevant because of the software already written in it and that will not just get rewritten because PHP isn’t HOT anymore. 2) If you are a new PHP developer you are most likely going to be shoved into a job that has more to do with configuring, maintaining and customizing those preexisting systems. 3) Because of that getting from being a beginner PHP dev to an expert PHP dev is going to be harder than it should be. 4) There are going to be less PHP jobs in proportion to its usage out there because so many of the PHP jobs fall into the configuring, maintaining and customizing schema in comparison to other languages.
  - RobertRoberts 5y ago
    I am old also, and I have maintained some PHP code for about 18+ years now. From PHP 4 to PHP 7.4. The changes and improvements are dramatic and wonderful. Improvements in speed, security, error processing, functionality/integration with databases, Composer, etc... While I am not suggesting you go back to PHP, but things are simply not the same anymore.
    - johntdaly 5y ago
      I know it is not the same anymore. It doesn’t invalidate my experience from back then and the reason I left the community. And to get a response along the line that, I don’t get to have an opinion because the stuff I worked on was “OLD SHIT” is insulting.
striking 5y ago
Owncloud is switching to Go. https://owncloud.com/news/ready-steady-go/ https://owncloud.com/news/ready-steady-go/
- kevinmgranger 5y ago
  How much has the NextCloud source diverged from OwnCloud? Will it also be switching to Go?
  - johntdaly 5y ago
    Nextcloud won’t change to the new, go ownCloud codebase. There are two separate and competing companies behind each product now. Nextcloud also has client side encryption as a commercial add-on, that sort of is a big deal.

mathattack 5y ago

Good point on jobs vs existing code base. It’s kind of like radio still has a lot of listeners but the amount of new stations isn’t rising as dramatically as other mediums.

dncornholio 5y ago

Why would PHP want to go away? It's developing and there's plenty of software being written in it now and it will continue to do so. There's not much wrong with modern PHP. Symfony and Laravel projects are a joy to work with. The standards and tooling is there too with composer, phpunit, PSR-4. I don't think you've ever been into PHP if you was only wrenching in old projects.

johntdaly 5y ago
Dude I am old. When I was working with PHP I had to watch out for diffs between 4.x and 5.x servers. Hell, I think we hat some old 3.x code even. Frameworks where new, composer didn’t exist and I was getting annoyed of getting Paamayim Nekudotayim as an Error because the where limitations in the engine when it comes to finding the static methods of a class instance. Thing is those OLD projects where new when I was working on them. When I got into WordPress back then It was NEW. When I got in to jQuery it had 3% market share and it was the underdog. A lot of the arguments you might be sick of hearing about, well back then they where valid.
- dncornholio 5y ago
  I was using MooTools before jQuery ever was a thing but you don't hear me complaining about PHP. I love PHP and enjoy working on it each and every day. It's legacy is a hell I agree but quite irrelevant and getting old.
  - johntdaly 5y ago
    You can love and enjoy PHP as much as you want, that is ok. I don’t, I’m gone and I wont be back and that should be ok too. It is not meant as a personal attack. Hell, I have a lot of bad stuff to say about JavaScript too and right now I’m writing 100% JavaScript in the frontend and the backend! You know the saying “There are two types of programming languages, the ones you love and the ones you use”. That sort of thing. AND it still doesn’t invalidate my points: 1) PHP is relevant because of the software already written in it and that will not just get rewritten because PHP isn’t HOT anymore. 2) If you are a new PHP developer you are most likely going to be shoved into a job that has more to do with configuring, maintaining and customizing those preexisting systems. 3) Because of that getting from being a beginner PHP dev to an expert PHP dev is going to be harder than it should be. 4) There are going to be less PHP jobs in proportion to its usage out there because so many of the PHP jobs fall into the configuring, maintaining and customizing schema in comparison to other languages.
- RobertRoberts 5y ago
  I am old also, and I have maintained some PHP code for about 18+ years now. From PHP 4 to PHP 7.4. The changes and improvements are dramatic and wonderful. Improvements in speed, security, error processing, functionality/integration with databases, Composer, etc... While I am not suggesting you go back to PHP, but things are simply not the same anymore.
  - johntdaly 5y ago
    I know it is not the same anymore. It doesn’t invalidate my experience from back then and the reason I left the community. And to get a response along the line that, I don’t get to have an opinion because the stuff I worked on was “OLD SHIT” is insulting.

striking 5y ago

Owncloud is switching to Go. https://owncloud.com/news/ready-steady-go/ https://owncloud.com/news/ready-steady-go/

kevinmgranger 5y ago
How much has the NextCloud source diverged from OwnCloud? Will it also be switching to Go?
- johntdaly 5y ago
  Nextcloud won’t change to the new, go ownCloud codebase. There are two separate and competing companies behind each product now. Nextcloud also has client side encryption as a commercial add-on, that sort of is a big deal.