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> I still strongly believe that children do not belong on the internet. They are too easily influenced and social media makes it easy for them to post stuff tha

by ethbr0 5y ago

> I still strongly believe that children do not belong on the internet. They are too easily influenced and social media makes it easy for them to post stuff that they might later regret. [...] Also making the internet [safe] for children requires for adults to give up too much freedom. This is the most concisely I've heard it put. As a member of the last pre-Internet childhood generation, now with children of my own, I cannot agree more. Things used to be better as children. Full stop. Now we have predatory social and game companies abusing legal but immoral dark patterns for addiction, revenue, and data collection, to the detriment of their users' development, mental health, and lives. Edit: Here's a direct link to the Code: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/ico-codes-of-practice/age-appropriate-design-a-code-of-practice-for-online-services/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio... (If on mobile, click on "Contents" on the top left to navigate down to the individual provisions)

altacc 5y ago
I despair of these dark, addictive patterns . I vet games for my children and I long for the days of simply buying a game and that was it. Now there's a confusing barrage of points, coins, gems, crates, etc... that not only make the game "pay to win" but also create addiction and gambling patterns in young brians. My children think I'm mean for not letting them play the games their friends are playing but I think they're better off for it.
- antasvara 5y ago
  I've aways wondered how parents balance the desire to limit screen time with the social pressure to play specific games/be on specific apps. I had my screen time limited growing up and I'm grateful for it, because it made me mor patient and allowed me to focus on other stuff. However, even near the end of middle school, it was already getting tough to be social without playing video games or being on social media. Have you found any of these issues with your own kids, or have things changed for the better in that respect?
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    I suppose FOMO is real, but I don't think of missing out on video games as particularly "tough."
    - altacc 5y ago
      Playground peer pressure can be relatively tough enough to upset kids.
    - antasvara 5y ago
      I mean, peer pressure is tough as a general rule. It's no different than the peer pressure associated with wearing the wrong kinds of clothes, being interested in classically "dorky" stuff, etc. There's also an element of communication outside of school. Nowadays (and this is based off of what the kids I work with tell me, so YMMV) it seems that a lot of what students do after school is related to screens. Students talk to each other through Roblox, play Minecraft instead of board games, etc. It's hard to come up with an analogy because the "in" toy/subject from grade school varies widely by age. At least in my age range, an analogous type of pressure would be Pokemon cards. Talking about Pokemon and playing with the cards dominated most conversations, so not having them made it a lot harder to interact with your peers. This may be a US thing though, as I'm not super aware of how grade school social standing works in other countries.
      - altacc 5y ago
        Our school actually banned Pokemon cards as they caused so many issues, from lack of activity to arguments and thefts. On the way to and from school you'll see students just outside the grounds making illicit trades and games.
  - altacc 5y ago
    My children are still very young but got pressure to be playing the popular games in primary school, at age 8. At break time/recess some of the kids play games based on Brawl Stars & Zooba and if you don't play those then you're excluded. It seems to be worst for children with older siblings, who see what their siblings play and ask for it, and as it's already "in the house" the parents are more willing to allow it. I have the same issue with my children as they are a few years apart, the younger one gets disappointed but I try to find different games for him to play. My kids get one hour of gaming each day of the weekend but there are those in their class who have had free access to a tablet every day from age 6. It's anecdotal, but those do seem to be the ones with most behavioral issues and find it hard to play creatively.
- xoa 5y ago
  >I vet games for my children and I long for the days of simply buying a game and that was it. You still can though? In fact I've found that's the single best low-pass filter for games: nothing with any sort of online connection requirement or in-game real money purchases. Actual classic content expansion packs available to buy in the store, sure, but absolutely nothing consumable in-game of any kind whatsoever. That immediately cuts through an enormous amount of dross in one quick check while still leaving more great content then one could fully play in a lifetime. I just wish more stores (and would support a legal mandate for it) had options to filter all that out completely so it never even gets displayed. I don't want to see a single "free" game ever. Outlawing gambling in smartphone and console games entirely would be even better, but I'd settle for rock hard filters. So yeah, the same old thing as always works: simply buy a game, and that's it. The only change is that you do need to look if you can simply "buy a game and that's it", but it's not as if those have gone away.
  - em500 5y ago
    The Nintendo Switch is probably the closest to something you can give to little kids without too much worry in the current gen. Used previous gen Nintendo gear (2DS/3DS/DSi) might work even better, though at some point peer pressure to get something newer will probably get too difficult to resist.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    I've seen it posted on HN, but a stricter labeling requirement could provide visibility into the worst software excesses in a lot of areas. And IoT, because ofc. Includes in-app payments, requires online connectivity, requires external identity, collects data, monetizes data, includes ads, etc. Like nutritional information for software.
  - 0xffff2 5y ago
    How do you do that on an iPhone? I wouldn't mind having a game or two on my phone for when I have some time to kill (e.g. waiting at a doctors office), but AFAICT, the app store doesn't have any way to sort by "Most popular games that don't have in app purchases". I've tried just Googling for recommendations, but that doesn't work very well either.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  Children will always think parents are mean, however you could preempt that by letting your childrens friends parents know that you are vetting games and give them suggestions for which games are safe to play. That way, your child plays the games that are safe, your childrens friends parents don't have to do the work and nobody has to have FOMO.

by ethbr0 5y ago

altacc 5y ago

I despair of these dark, addictive patterns . I vet games for my children and I long for the days of simply buying a game and that was it. Now there's a confusing barrage of points, coins, gems, crates, etc... that not only make the game "pay to win" but also create addiction and gambling patterns in young brians. My children think I'm mean for not letting them play the games their friends are playing but I think they're better off for it.

antasvara 5y ago
I've aways wondered how parents balance the desire to limit screen time with the social pressure to play specific games/be on specific apps. I had my screen time limited growing up and I'm grateful for it, because it made me mor patient and allowed me to focus on other stuff. However, even near the end of middle school, it was already getting tough to be social without playing video games or being on social media. Have you found any of these issues with your own kids, or have things changed for the better in that respect?
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  I suppose FOMO is real, but I don't think of missing out on video games as particularly "tough."
  - altacc 5y ago
    Playground peer pressure can be relatively tough enough to upset kids.
  - antasvara 5y ago
    I mean, peer pressure is tough as a general rule. It's no different than the peer pressure associated with wearing the wrong kinds of clothes, being interested in classically "dorky" stuff, etc. There's also an element of communication outside of school. Nowadays (and this is based off of what the kids I work with tell me, so YMMV) it seems that a lot of what students do after school is related to screens. Students talk to each other through Roblox, play Minecraft instead of board games, etc. It's hard to come up with an analogy because the "in" toy/subject from grade school varies widely by age. At least in my age range, an analogous type of pressure would be Pokemon cards. Talking about Pokemon and playing with the cards dominated most conversations, so not having them made it a lot harder to interact with your peers. This may be a US thing though, as I'm not super aware of how grade school social standing works in other countries.
    - altacc 5y ago
      Our school actually banned Pokemon cards as they caused so many issues, from lack of activity to arguments and thefts. On the way to and from school you'll see students just outside the grounds making illicit trades and games.
- altacc 5y ago
  My children are still very young but got pressure to be playing the popular games in primary school, at age 8. At break time/recess some of the kids play games based on Brawl Stars & Zooba and if you don't play those then you're excluded. It seems to be worst for children with older siblings, who see what their siblings play and ask for it, and as it's already "in the house" the parents are more willing to allow it. I have the same issue with my children as they are a few years apart, the younger one gets disappointed but I try to find different games for him to play. My kids get one hour of gaming each day of the weekend but there are those in their class who have had free access to a tablet every day from age 6. It's anecdotal, but those do seem to be the ones with most behavioral issues and find it hard to play creatively.
xoa 5y ago
>I vet games for my children and I long for the days of simply buying a game and that was it. You still can though? In fact I've found that's the single best low-pass filter for games: nothing with any sort of online connection requirement or in-game real money purchases. Actual classic content expansion packs available to buy in the store, sure, but absolutely nothing consumable in-game of any kind whatsoever. That immediately cuts through an enormous amount of dross in one quick check while still leaving more great content then one could fully play in a lifetime. I just wish more stores (and would support a legal mandate for it) had options to filter all that out completely so it never even gets displayed. I don't want to see a single "free" game ever. Outlawing gambling in smartphone and console games entirely would be even better, but I'd settle for rock hard filters. So yeah, the same old thing as always works: simply buy a game, and that's it. The only change is that you do need to look if you can simply "buy a game and that's it", but it's not as if those have gone away.
- em500 5y ago
  The Nintendo Switch is probably the closest to something you can give to little kids without too much worry in the current gen. Used previous gen Nintendo gear (2DS/3DS/DSi) might work even better, though at some point peer pressure to get something newer will probably get too difficult to resist.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  I've seen it posted on HN, but a stricter labeling requirement could provide visibility into the worst software excesses in a lot of areas. And IoT, because ofc. Includes in-app payments, requires online connectivity, requires external identity, collects data, monetizes data, includes ads, etc. Like nutritional information for software.
- 0xffff2 5y ago
  How do you do that on an iPhone? I wouldn't mind having a game or two on my phone for when I have some time to kill (e.g. waiting at a doctors office), but AFAICT, the app store doesn't have any way to sort by "Most popular games that don't have in app purchases". I've tried just Googling for recommendations, but that doesn't work very well either.
tomjen3 5y ago
Children will always think parents are mean, however you could preempt that by letting your childrens friends parents know that you are vetting games and give them suggestions for which games are safe to play. That way, your child plays the games that are safe, your childrens friends parents don't have to do the work and nobody has to have FOMO.