4 ms·

Does there exist any company that allows their employees to work any number of hours they want, whenever they want?

WJW 5y ago
Yes, Uber, since their gig workers are now employees. \s Under Dutch law, to be classified as an independent contractor you also need to be able to set your own prices and have a "significant" (the law is fairly specific but it is too long for a HN comment) say in exactly how you provide your services. The court ruled that Uber drivers do not meet this bar and are therefore not independent contractors. TBH, the "ZZP" construction used has always been a fairly transparent attempt by Uber and the other gig companies to evade labor regulations for their own profits and I'm glad that the court has issued a clear statement about it.
- yawnxyz 5y ago
  Blablacar lets you set your own prices on trips, and they don't kick you off if you refuse fares
chaosite 5y ago
Neither does Uber, if they don't have rides to give, they're not gonna let anyone work for them.
gjulianm 5y ago
It's funny that Uber decided to force employment laws to avoid paying social security, taxes and other obligations related to regular employment, but won't force employment laws to allow employees to work any number of hours they want whenever they want.
throwawaycities 5y ago
What does that matter? Just because you can pick your own hours/work schedule, that doesn’t make you an independent contractor. At least it’s not determinative in the US under federal law nor any state that I am aware, but maybe that is the Dutch law and the court just got it wrong here
- DeusExMachina 5y ago
  Here in the Netherlands, where the ruling was made, it's definitely the case that being able to determine your own hours is one of the requirements of being a freelancer. When I was freelancing, clients could not tell me at what time I had to be in the office, when I could live, or on which days I had to go, to avoid me being considered an employee.
  - nulbyte 5y ago
    I don't believe that was GP's point. Setting your own hours is not anathema to an employer-employee relationship.
- avsteele 5y ago
  To determine if they are employees we look for ways the Uber/driver relationship is similar and different to other businesses using the employee model. To determine if they are contractors we look for ways the user/driver relationship is different from other businesses using the employee model. If no other businesses allow employees to set their number of hours with such flexibility then that is evidence the relationship doesn't fall under the employee model. This need not be all or nothing but it is (obviously) a factor.

WJW 5y ago

Yes, Uber, since their gig workers are now employees. \s Under Dutch law, to be classified as an independent contractor you also need to be able to set your own prices and have a "significant" (the law is fairly specific but it is too long for a HN comment) say in exactly how you provide your services. The court ruled that Uber drivers do not meet this bar and are therefore not independent contractors. TBH, the "ZZP" construction used has always been a fairly transparent attempt by Uber and the other gig companies to evade labor regulations for their own profits and I'm glad that the court has issued a clear statement about it.

yawnxyz 5y ago
Blablacar lets you set your own prices on trips, and they don't kick you off if you refuse fares

chaosite 5y ago

Neither does Uber, if they don't have rides to give, they're not gonna let anyone work for them.

gjulianm 5y ago

It's funny that Uber decided to force employment laws to avoid paying social security, taxes and other obligations related to regular employment, but won't force employment laws to allow employees to work any number of hours they want whenever they want.

throwawaycities 5y ago

What does that matter? Just because you can pick your own hours/work schedule, that doesn’t make you an independent contractor. At least it’s not determinative in the US under federal law nor any state that I am aware, but maybe that is the Dutch law and the court just got it wrong here

DeusExMachina 5y ago
Here in the Netherlands, where the ruling was made, it's definitely the case that being able to determine your own hours is one of the requirements of being a freelancer. When I was freelancing, clients could not tell me at what time I had to be in the office, when I could live, or on which days I had to go, to avoid me being considered an employee.
- nulbyte 5y ago
  I don't believe that was GP's point. Setting your own hours is not anathema to an employer-employee relationship.
avsteele 5y ago
To determine if they are employees we look for ways the Uber/driver relationship is similar and different to other businesses using the employee model. To determine if they are contractors we look for ways the user/driver relationship is different from other businesses using the employee model. If no other businesses allow employees to set their number of hours with such flexibility then that is evidence the relationship doesn't fall under the employee model. This need not be all or nothing but it is (obviously) a factor.