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Think BTC Is a Dirty Business? Consider the Carbon Cost of a Dollar

31 points by eric_khun 5y ago

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
So we're just going to ignore that BTC itself can't really be used at all without a giant global supply chain that makes all the computing components it ends up consuming on top of all the electricity it burns?
- bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
  I think the point is that such costs are also ignored when talking about the carbon/technological cost of the dollar. Our current state of centralized finance is impossible without the same giant global supply chain.
  - worrycue 5y ago
    In the worst case we can just revert to the ways of the pre-computer days though. We will still have a somewhat functioning financial system.
- coralreef 5y ago
  You don't need anything extra for Bitcoin. The computers and devices that existed even before Bitcoin was sufficient enough to secure the network. Profits incentivized miners to invest in specialized devices. If Bitcoin's price stood still, hash power would eventually find equilibrium, and no new resources would be invested. But if price keeps going up, of course people chase more coin.
ericb 5y ago
The difference is the carbon costs of the dollar are not following an exponential growth curve.
defaulty 5y ago
I thought this was going to be the cost of producing/spending USD, not a historical tour of the petrodollar's economics. It was the latter
- brian_herman 5y ago
  My thoughts exactly.
jcrben 5y ago
This petrodollar thesis is a stretch. If anything bitcoin increases demand for oil especially due to illicit mining using stolen oil. We park military in the Middle East mostly due to religious extremist and terrorism risk. Bitcoin does not change that. But even if we park military in the US mostly due to oil, bitcoin doesn't change that either! Bitcoin increases our need for energy.
- atatatat 5y ago
  > We park military in the Middle East mostly due to religious extremist and terrorism risk Tall tales, unless your argument revolves around keeping the entire region so poor and fucked over that they can't afford plane tickets or other ways to go attack the US. Or you're talking about protecting something other than the US and its citizens, in which case...
mensetmanusman 5y ago
This is a meaningless argument, because the same could be said for any currency.
galdauts 5y ago
Considering the environmental impact of the US economy and its policies is important in its own right, but applying that to the dollar is a stretch in my opinion. Also, the dollar is not the only traditional currency in the world.
Traster 5y ago
This just seems like a deliberately misleading article. Just taking a glance at it you've got to think straight off -Well sure, dollars go to Saudi Arabia et al, and sure, some of that might end up in treasuries eventually, but let's not pretend that it's anything like responsible for all the value of the dollar. So I looked it up. How much oil does the US import? It is a net exporter. This article takes a view of the world as it might have been in 2005, but it isn't today. Even if you buy the idea that the petrodollar is something America does encourage (using strategic alliances with oil producing countries to keep the dollar the reserve currency in order to use it for diplomatic reasons) that has nothing to do with the carbon cost of the dollar. It's to do with the carbon cost of the US trying to project international power. It's these sort of articles that make me even more suspicious of Bitcoin ownership.

31 points by eric_khun 5y ago

So we're just going to ignore that BTC itself can't really be used at all without a giant global supply chain that makes all the computing components it ends up consuming on top of all the electricity it burns?

bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
I think the point is that such costs are also ignored when talking about the carbon/technological cost of the dollar. Our current state of centralized finance is impossible without the same giant global supply chain.
- worrycue 5y ago
  In the worst case we can just revert to the ways of the pre-computer days though. We will still have a somewhat functioning financial system.
coralreef 5y ago
You don't need anything extra for Bitcoin. The computers and devices that existed even before Bitcoin was sufficient enough to secure the network. Profits incentivized miners to invest in specialized devices. If Bitcoin's price stood still, hash power would eventually find equilibrium, and no new resources would be invested. But if price keeps going up, of course people chase more coin.

ericb 5y ago

The difference is the carbon costs of the dollar are not following an exponential growth curve.

defaulty 5y ago

I thought this was going to be the cost of producing/spending USD, not a historical tour of the petrodollar's economics. It was the latter

brian_herman 5y ago
My thoughts exactly.

jcrben 5y ago

This petrodollar thesis is a stretch. If anything bitcoin increases demand for oil especially due to illicit mining using stolen oil. We park military in the Middle East mostly due to religious extremist and terrorism risk. Bitcoin does not change that. But even if we park military in the US mostly due to oil, bitcoin doesn't change that either! Bitcoin increases our need for energy.

atatatat 5y ago
> We park military in the Middle East mostly due to religious extremist and terrorism risk Tall tales, unless your argument revolves around keeping the entire region so poor and fucked over that they can't afford plane tickets or other ways to go attack the US. Or you're talking about protecting something other than the US and its citizens, in which case...

mensetmanusman 5y ago

This is a meaningless argument, because the same could be said for any currency.

galdauts 5y ago

Considering the environmental impact of the US economy and its policies is important in its own right, but applying that to the dollar is a stretch in my opinion. Also, the dollar is not the only traditional currency in the world.

Traster 5y ago

This just seems like a deliberately misleading article. Just taking a glance at it you've got to think straight off -Well sure, dollars go to Saudi Arabia et al, and sure, some of that might end up in treasuries eventually, but let's not pretend that it's anything like responsible for all the value of the dollar. So I looked it up. How much oil does the US import? It is a net exporter. This article takes a view of the world as it might have been in 2005, but it isn't today. Even if you buy the idea that the petrodollar is something America does encourage (using strategic alliances with oil producing countries to keep the dollar the reserve currency in order to use it for diplomatic reasons) that has nothing to do with the carbon cost of the dollar. It's to do with the carbon cost of the US trying to project international power. It's these sort of articles that make me even more suspicious of Bitcoin ownership.