4 ms·

I'm not sure if I understood it correctly but it sounds like they're able to know which website of the top 20 you're visiting based on how much the power usage

I'm not sure if I understood it correctly but it sounds like they're able to know which website of the top 20 you're visiting based on how much the power usage changed whilst charging. If that's correct then what's the actual real world problem here?

bayindirh 5y ago
Power analysis have opens a lot of doors for indirect attacks. If they can predict which site you're on, they can also possibly detect an unsecured secure algorithm's state. SSL or PGP had a similar "power starvation" attack: reducing the power to the power supply and watching power drainage allowed one to predict private keys. The attack has been patched, then.
- xattt 5y ago
  Does anyone actually use their phone while attached to a wireless charger? It seems incredibly awkward.
  - bayindirh 5y ago
    I actually use mine. Generally stream music to something. However, you don't need to use it. iOS does a lot of thing during charging. Face recognition, backups, mail checks, software updates, another applications' background stuff. It might as well interact with your home or car over BT (cars have wireless charging these days). There's a myriad of opportunities there.
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    There are wireless charging phone mounts: * https://www.rammount.com/shop-all/phone-mounts/wireless-charging https://www.rammount.com/shop-all/phone-mounts/wireless-char...
- cixter 5y ago
  This sounds really interesting! Do you have any links where I can read more about this power starvation attack?
  - bayindirh 5y ago
    I remembered it correctly: It's the RSA part of OpenSSL which was cracked (or leaked to be exact), 11 years ago (wow, time flies). Summary is here [0], and paper is here [1]. [0]: https://www.theregister.com/2010/03/04/severe_openssl_vulnerability/ https://www.theregister.com/2010/03/04/severe_openssl_vulner... [1]: http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~valeria/research/publications/DATE10RSA.pdf http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~valeria/research/publications/DAT...
tinus_hn 5y ago
There really is none, if you control the environment where someone is charging their phone while using it, it wouldn’t be hard to just point a hidden camera at the screen. Or just offer free wi-fi and watch people’s traffic.
- rovr138 5y ago
  That assumes the camara always has a view and that there's no VPN or other layer protecting the traffic.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    No, if all you want is detecting which one of 20 websites a user is browsing to, which you can by checking how much power it uses, you can definitely do that from traffic patterns even if the traffic flows through a vpn. And this ‘leak’ assumes a user has his phone on a charger while it is already full, there is no guarantee it works.
advisedwang 5y ago
To me this is notable research because if this side-channel attack is possible, then maybe more serious ones are.

bayindirh 5y ago

Power analysis have opens a lot of doors for indirect attacks. If they can predict which site you're on, they can also possibly detect an unsecured secure algorithm's state. SSL or PGP had a similar "power starvation" attack: reducing the power to the power supply and watching power drainage allowed one to predict private keys. The attack has been patched, then.

xattt 5y ago
Does anyone actually use their phone while attached to a wireless charger? It seems incredibly awkward.
- bayindirh 5y ago
  I actually use mine. Generally stream music to something. However, you don't need to use it. iOS does a lot of thing during charging. Face recognition, backups, mail checks, software updates, another applications' background stuff. It might as well interact with your home or car over BT (cars have wireless charging these days). There's a myriad of opportunities there.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  There are wireless charging phone mounts: * https://www.rammount.com/shop-all/phone-mounts/wireless-charging https://www.rammount.com/shop-all/phone-mounts/wireless-char...
cixter 5y ago
This sounds really interesting! Do you have any links where I can read more about this power starvation attack?
- bayindirh 5y ago
  I remembered it correctly: It's the RSA part of OpenSSL which was cracked (or leaked to be exact), 11 years ago (wow, time flies). Summary is here [0], and paper is here [1]. [0]: https://www.theregister.com/2010/03/04/severe_openssl_vulnerability/ https://www.theregister.com/2010/03/04/severe_openssl_vulner... [1]: http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~valeria/research/publications/DATE10RSA.pdf http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~valeria/research/publications/DAT...

tinus_hn 5y ago

There really is none, if you control the environment where someone is charging their phone while using it, it wouldn’t be hard to just point a hidden camera at the screen. Or just offer free wi-fi and watch people’s traffic.

rovr138 5y ago
That assumes the camara always has a view and that there's no VPN or other layer protecting the traffic.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  No, if all you want is detecting which one of 20 websites a user is browsing to, which you can by checking how much power it uses, you can definitely do that from traffic patterns even if the traffic flows through a vpn. And this ‘leak’ assumes a user has his phone on a charger while it is already full, there is no guarantee it works.

advisedwang 5y ago

To me this is notable research because if this side-channel attack is possible, then maybe more serious ones are.