6 ms·

This is great for the company, but I wonder if it is the best thing for the game. You have to remember that this is still in beta. Does any 1 game really need

This is great for the company, but I wonder if it is the best thing for the game. You have to remember that this is still in beta. Does any 1 game really need 3 million beta testers? I think you really start diluting comments that will help you advance the game and start caving to a mass of people looking for a complete game.

beaumartinez 15y ago
"Beta" is a very loosely-defined term. Gmail was in "beta" for years. All it really means is that it isn't the "final product".
- joshfinnie 15y ago
  "Beta" for gmail was different. "Beta" for Minecraft means just that. The 1.8 update is suppose to completely change the direction of the game adding adventure and NPCs. My fear is this is because of the 3 million beta users and grand views of the masses.
  - ugh 15y ago
    Not really. Giving the game some sort of (optional) goal (i.e. actually turning Minecraft into a game) was always Notch’s plan. Nothing special about that.
    - joshfinnie 15y ago
      Right, showing how it's in beta. I guess my main point is that 3 million users might not be the best for a beta game. It might work in the end, but I think Minecraft might get bogged down with 3 million users making suggestions to a non-complete game.
      - jerf 15y ago
        Why are you hypothesizing about how the way things currently are might be a problem, when they in fact visibly aren't a problem? What's your point?
sukuriant 15y ago
I don't think the majority of Minecraft users even consider that the game is in Beta. I don't think of that when I play, the game is functionally complete, and I play it just for fun. I imagine most people, when the game is finally "finished", will respond something: "oh... that's cool ... so, what's ~this~ update changed?" It'll be little different to them from the many other updates that have occurred. For Minecraft, I think, Beta is just a word. (though it does affect payment options, which I'm sure some people will be very sad from)
deleted 15y ago
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RuadhanMc 15y ago
Does it matter that it is still in beta? Gmail was in beta for a long time? It's obviously not a "beta" version of the product in historical terms. It's a product that's being publicly used, with all of its imperfections on show, which is continuously being developed. These are paying customers.
- EatenByGrues 15y ago
  I would say that the actual software component of Minecraft isn't in beta so much as it's the "game mechanics" side of it. It's like having a board with pieces, but not all the rules are written yet.
MrFoof 15y ago
>"You have to remember that this is still in beta. Does any 1 game really need 3 million beta testers?" Markus had sold somewhere between 800,000 and 850,000 copies before it went into Beta. Does a game really need 800,000 or so Alpha testers? No. However considering how the game has ultimately developed, it's best to ignore the naming conventions entirely, considering that -- bugs aside -- it's still a very enjoyable playing experience. "Beta" is effectively a discount. "Alpha" was an even larger discount, and the promise that all future updates would forever be free.
blauwbilgorgel 15y ago
I am following the Minecraft story with interest. I think it is the best example of a game made with Agile developing practices: Individuals and interactions, working software, customer collaboration, responding to change. Notch has been in very close contact with the players of the game throughout development, and has a keen sense of what this mass of people is looking for.
- plinkplonk 15y ago
  Success has a thousand fathers. All successful projects are retrospectively "agile" (or so the agilists claim). There are no agile projects that fail (including the original Chrysler project whose sponsors shut down the program and threw the team (consisting of the agile founding fathers) out. In that case you just redefine failure. If you can show that Mojang does TDD, 'story' card walls, velocity tracking or kanban pipelines or any of the concrete "developing practices" (to use your term) pushed by the agile consultant folks (vs some motherhood "values" that can be retrospectively applied to any successful project try say Google+ instead of MineCraft and you could call it an "agile" success story too) then you'd have more of a case.[1] Otherwise you could label any successful project anywhere "agile". [1] I am not saying Mojang doesn't do "agile". Maybe he does - in which case a comment that explained which concrete practices he found useful would be great. I am just tired of agilists latching on to any and all successful projects and calling them "agile" to the point where "agile" becomes a synonym for "successful".
  - tjogin 15y ago
    Many of the updates have introduced bugs that, from an outsider's perspective, ought to have been obvious. If I were a gambling man, I'd bet they don't do any kind of automated testing. Add Notch's peculiar reservations about Git to that, I suspect that agile practices are way too advanced for their team. I'm just speculating of course, as are we all. Just saying that from my perspective, they don't look like a team using agile practices. They don't look like a team using any kind of standard industry practices at all, really. Disclaimer: I love Minecraft, play it all the time.
ohyes 15y ago
You also have to remember that Minecraft as a Beta also happens to be more polished than the majority of pieces of 'software' that make it to market as final releases. 'Beta' in this situation is a modesty thing, I think.
DrHankPym 15y ago
Are you kidding? Playing beta is the best part about Minecraft. The game keeps advancing, and the team blogs and tweets asking for suggestions or new ideas. This is the kind of stuff kids dream about: designing a video game! Honestly, I think this could be a great business model for indie game designers.

beaumartinez 15y ago

"Beta" is a very loosely-defined term. Gmail was in "beta" for years. All it really means is that it isn't the "final product".

joshfinnie 15y ago
"Beta" for gmail was different. "Beta" for Minecraft means just that. The 1.8 update is suppose to completely change the direction of the game adding adventure and NPCs. My fear is this is because of the 3 million beta users and grand views of the masses.
- ugh 15y ago
  Not really. Giving the game some sort of (optional) goal (i.e. actually turning Minecraft into a game) was always Notch’s plan. Nothing special about that.
  - joshfinnie 15y ago
    Right, showing how it's in beta. I guess my main point is that 3 million users might not be the best for a beta game. It might work in the end, but I think Minecraft might get bogged down with 3 million users making suggestions to a non-complete game.
    - jerf 15y ago
      Why are you hypothesizing about how the way things currently are might be a problem, when they in fact visibly aren't a problem? What's your point?

sukuriant 15y ago

I don't think the majority of Minecraft users even consider that the game is in Beta. I don't think of that when I play, the game is functionally complete, and I play it just for fun. I imagine most people, when the game is finally "finished", will respond something: "oh... that's cool ... so, what's ~this~ update changed?" It'll be little different to them from the many other updates that have occurred. For Minecraft, I think, Beta is just a word. (though it does affect payment options, which I'm sure some people will be very sad from)

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

RuadhanMc 15y ago

Does it matter that it is still in beta? Gmail was in beta for a long time? It's obviously not a "beta" version of the product in historical terms. It's a product that's being publicly used, with all of its imperfections on show, which is continuously being developed. These are paying customers.

EatenByGrues 15y ago
I would say that the actual software component of Minecraft isn't in beta so much as it's the "game mechanics" side of it. It's like having a board with pieces, but not all the rules are written yet.

MrFoof 15y ago

>"You have to remember that this is still in beta. Does any 1 game really need 3 million beta testers?" Markus had sold somewhere between 800,000 and 850,000 copies before it went into Beta. Does a game really need 800,000 or so Alpha testers? No. However considering how the game has ultimately developed, it's best to ignore the naming conventions entirely, considering that -- bugs aside -- it's still a very enjoyable playing experience. "Beta" is effectively a discount. "Alpha" was an even larger discount, and the promise that all future updates would forever be free.

blauwbilgorgel 15y ago

I am following the Minecraft story with interest. I think it is the best example of a game made with Agile developing practices: Individuals and interactions, working software, customer collaboration, responding to change. Notch has been in very close contact with the players of the game throughout development, and has a keen sense of what this mass of people is looking for.

plinkplonk 15y ago
Success has a thousand fathers. All successful projects are retrospectively "agile" (or so the agilists claim). There are no agile projects that fail (including the original Chrysler project whose sponsors shut down the program and threw the team (consisting of the agile founding fathers) out. In that case you just redefine failure. If you can show that Mojang does TDD, 'story' card walls, velocity tracking or kanban pipelines or any of the concrete "developing practices" (to use your term) pushed by the agile consultant folks (vs some motherhood "values" that can be retrospectively applied to any successful project try say Google+ instead of MineCraft and you could call it an "agile" success story too) then you'd have more of a case.[1] Otherwise you could label any successful project anywhere "agile". [1] I am not saying Mojang doesn't do "agile". Maybe he does - in which case a comment that explained which concrete practices he found useful would be great. I am just tired of agilists latching on to any and all successful projects and calling them "agile" to the point where "agile" becomes a synonym for "successful".
- tjogin 15y ago
  Many of the updates have introduced bugs that, from an outsider's perspective, ought to have been obvious. If I were a gambling man, I'd bet they don't do any kind of automated testing. Add Notch's peculiar reservations about Git to that, I suspect that agile practices are way too advanced for their team. I'm just speculating of course, as are we all. Just saying that from my perspective, they don't look like a team using agile practices. They don't look like a team using any kind of standard industry practices at all, really. Disclaimer: I love Minecraft, play it all the time.

ohyes 15y ago

You also have to remember that Minecraft as a Beta also happens to be more polished than the majority of pieces of 'software' that make it to market as final releases. 'Beta' in this situation is a modesty thing, I think.

DrHankPym 15y ago

Are you kidding? Playing beta is the best part about Minecraft. The game keeps advancing, and the team blogs and tweets asking for suggestions or new ideas. This is the kind of stuff kids dream about: designing a video game! Honestly, I think this could be a great business model for indie game designers.