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Handbrakes do not always break rear wheels for one, some cars have front parking breaks. I am pretty sure you will be off the road if you locked your front whee

Handbrakes do not always break rear wheels for one, some cars have front parking breaks. I am pretty sure you will be off the road if you locked your front wheels in a turn no matter how much muscle memory you have, you cannot steer with locked wheels. And I have not seen a car where a handbrake could lock wheels even on idle, least on driving in gear at 50 mph. I don't doubt such breaks exist, rally cars supposed to have them, but on my car, for instance, all that is going to happen if I pull the handbrake flap in gear is nothing and if I hold it for 5 seconds it will do an emergency stop using its ESC,ABS and all kinds of smart technology (I think it's also supposed to move to the shoulder and turn on hazards but I never really tried it). It won't slide for sure. How am I supposed to pass a test like that? Rent a 500K rally car? >OP said this was in Denmark, so presumably every little thing isn't a "gold rush for lawyers" unlike in the USA People can just kill themselves on orders from government in Denmark? Sounds like the country not to take as an example to me.

jjav 5y ago
> Handbrakes do not always break rear wheels for one, some cars have front parking breaks. Which one specifically? I've never encountered one and a brief web search didn't find any. I'm sure it can exist, but seems exceedingly rare at best. I mean this in the most encouraging way possible: your comments (this and previous) suggest you have zero experience with car control. I greatly encourage you to find and participate in a few car control clinics to see how cars actually behave on the edge of adhesion and beyond. It's a great learning experience and also just fun. Most importantly, if you ever do hit ice/oil/etc, it might just save you from a crash. > People can just kill themselves on orders from government in Denmark? No need to be silly. Surely these tests are done in a suitable location, and there's zero risk from a bit of a slide or spin. Again, something you could experience and learn in a car control class so it stops becoming scary.
- pandaman 5y ago
  Wiki article on the handbrake points at the brands, also ZF makes this https://press.zf.com/press/en/media/media_15682.html https://press.zf.com/press/en/media/media_15682.html not for the parts collectors I imagine. It is hard to check parking brake locations on the cars via internet though. And thanks for your concern about my car control, you don't seem to be talking about the things I mentioned though: the lack of parking brakes on many cars and the lack of parking brake capable to lock wheels on many more. I am not going to go to your clinic anyways so if you don't want to talk on the topic I will bow out. Besides, you just informed me that spinning out is completely safe and won't harm me so why again I need to train for that?
  - jjav 5y ago
    So there's about 4 cars with front parking brake based on wikipedia, all of them very old and esoteric. They are so rare they can be ignored as outliers. If you show up at the driving test in one of those I guess you'll have to rent another car. > Besides, you just informed me that spinning out is completely safe and won't harm me so why again I need to train for that? You're not discussing in good faith so I won't continue. Spinning out in a training facility (generally a large parking lot) is perfectly safe, it's a training area. Spinning out in traffic on a windy road, not so much. That's why you should train first in a safe space with instructors, before driving on public roads.
    - pandaman 5y ago
      4 car brands, each brand makes multiple car models, Citoën is by no means a rare make. I've seen them even in the US and in Europe (where Denmark is with its test) it's one of the popular brands Spinning out at 50 mph is not safe anywhere as you can easily rollover, I pity people who go into your clinic as you don't seem to have a slightest clue.
- herbstein 5y ago
  Coming back in late here. > No need to be silly. Surely these tests are done in a suitable location My tests were done in the middle of a former cold war airstrip. This link should show the complex in a satellite view: https://www.google.com/maps/place/K%C3%B8reteknisk+Anl%C3%A6g/@56.490393,10.0502464,507m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x464c1d38e22a533f:0x91df4f62559e03c!8m2!3d56.4891961!4d10.0520332 https://www.google.com/maps/place/K%C3%B8reteknisk+Anl%C3%A6... Notice the darker patch of tarmac. That is extra-slippery when wet and has a sprinkler system on the grass next to it.
oynqr 5y ago
Even if you could not lock the rear wheels on a regular manual car with the handbrake, these cars are always modified for instructive use. Think additional mirrors/pedals for the passenger. An upgraded handbrake doesn't seem far-fetched.
- jjav 5y ago
  > Even if you could not lock the rear wheels on a regular manual car with the handbrake Mind you, you don't need to lock the rear wheels to induce oversteer (rear sliding out). All you need to do is to make the rear wheel braking force be higher than the front wheel braking force while turning. Which in this case, since there is zero braking force on the front wheels, doesn't take much at all. A very quick pull on the handbrake will do it. If you ever drive a race car with an adjustable brake bias control (changes percentage of braking force front/rear) it's easy to experience it doesn't take much rear bias to induce a spin if braking in a turn, even though none of the wheels ever lock.
  - pandaman 5y ago
    So every time I drove off with the engaged parking brake I had my car sliding in the turns? Great news: I appear to have so much muscle memory that I was able to drive without even noticing that.
- pandaman 5y ago
  So you use an instructor car's to pass the driving test in Denmark? It's not how the things in the US work. People cry bloody murder if a state requires to show ID to vote because of unmanageable costs of getting a 20ish dollar/5ish years ID, imagine you had to rent a specially modified car to get a DL or not being able to get a job/buy food?

jjav 5y ago

> Handbrakes do not always break rear wheels for one, some cars have front parking breaks. Which one specifically? I've never encountered one and a brief web search didn't find any. I'm sure it can exist, but seems exceedingly rare at best. I mean this in the most encouraging way possible: your comments (this and previous) suggest you have zero experience with car control. I greatly encourage you to find and participate in a few car control clinics to see how cars actually behave on the edge of adhesion and beyond. It's a great learning experience and also just fun. Most importantly, if you ever do hit ice/oil/etc, it might just save you from a crash. > People can just kill themselves on orders from government in Denmark? No need to be silly. Surely these tests are done in a suitable location, and there's zero risk from a bit of a slide or spin. Again, something you could experience and learn in a car control class so it stops becoming scary.

pandaman 5y ago
Wiki article on the handbrake points at the brands, also ZF makes this https://press.zf.com/press/en/media/media_15682.html https://press.zf.com/press/en/media/media_15682.html not for the parts collectors I imagine. It is hard to check parking brake locations on the cars via internet though. And thanks for your concern about my car control, you don't seem to be talking about the things I mentioned though: the lack of parking brakes on many cars and the lack of parking brake capable to lock wheels on many more. I am not going to go to your clinic anyways so if you don't want to talk on the topic I will bow out. Besides, you just informed me that spinning out is completely safe and won't harm me so why again I need to train for that?
- jjav 5y ago
  So there's about 4 cars with front parking brake based on wikipedia, all of them very old and esoteric. They are so rare they can be ignored as outliers. If you show up at the driving test in one of those I guess you'll have to rent another car. > Besides, you just informed me that spinning out is completely safe and won't harm me so why again I need to train for that? You're not discussing in good faith so I won't continue. Spinning out in a training facility (generally a large parking lot) is perfectly safe, it's a training area. Spinning out in traffic on a windy road, not so much. That's why you should train first in a safe space with instructors, before driving on public roads.
  - pandaman 5y ago
    4 car brands, each brand makes multiple car models, Citoën is by no means a rare make. I've seen them even in the US and in Europe (where Denmark is with its test) it's one of the popular brands Spinning out at 50 mph is not safe anywhere as you can easily rollover, I pity people who go into your clinic as you don't seem to have a slightest clue.
herbstein 5y ago
Coming back in late here. > No need to be silly. Surely these tests are done in a suitable location My tests were done in the middle of a former cold war airstrip. This link should show the complex in a satellite view: https://www.google.com/maps/place/K%C3%B8reteknisk+Anl%C3%A6g/@56.490393,10.0502464,507m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x464c1d38e22a533f:0x91df4f62559e03c!8m2!3d56.4891961!4d10.0520332 https://www.google.com/maps/place/K%C3%B8reteknisk+Anl%C3%A6... Notice the darker patch of tarmac. That is extra-slippery when wet and has a sprinkler system on the grass next to it.

oynqr 5y ago

Even if you could not lock the rear wheels on a regular manual car with the handbrake, these cars are always modified for instructive use. Think additional mirrors/pedals for the passenger. An upgraded handbrake doesn't seem far-fetched.

jjav 5y ago
> Even if you could not lock the rear wheels on a regular manual car with the handbrake Mind you, you don't need to lock the rear wheels to induce oversteer (rear sliding out). All you need to do is to make the rear wheel braking force be higher than the front wheel braking force while turning. Which in this case, since there is zero braking force on the front wheels, doesn't take much at all. A very quick pull on the handbrake will do it. If you ever drive a race car with an adjustable brake bias control (changes percentage of braking force front/rear) it's easy to experience it doesn't take much rear bias to induce a spin if braking in a turn, even though none of the wheels ever lock.
- pandaman 5y ago
  So every time I drove off with the engaged parking brake I had my car sliding in the turns? Great news: I appear to have so much muscle memory that I was able to drive without even noticing that.
pandaman 5y ago
So you use an instructor car's to pass the driving test in Denmark? It's not how the things in the US work. People cry bloody murder if a state requires to show ID to vote because of unmanageable costs of getting a 20ish dollar/5ish years ID, imagine you had to rent a specially modified car to get a DL or not being able to get a job/buy food?