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I'm saying it could be a responsible decision for the person making the decision. The false premise that we should care about other people's health is annoying

I'm saying it could be a responsible decision for the person making the decision. The false premise that we should care about other people's health is annoying at this point. The vaccinated can still spread the virus, so we should make the decision to get vaccinated for ourselves, and those who don't make the orthodox decision should not be vilified.

nobodyandproud 5y ago
What makes it a false premise? People are quite tired of the unvaccinated who choose to opt-out without medical or traditional religious reasons; it’s worn thin because the decision affects people who want to get vaccinated but can’t. You don’t have worry about government mandates, though that’s inevitable. The unvaccinated won’t be able to find a job; or even conduct business the way things are going. And soon, you won’t get ICU beds either. These choices have consequences.
- ghoward 5y ago
  It's a false premise because those who would like to get the vaccine, but can't, can voluntarily do things to make sure they don't contract COVID. Instead, they clamor for governments to force people to do something so that they are not inconvenienced. A lot of the consequences of those choices are artificial. They are authoritarian measures designed to elicit compliance, not natural consequences. Also, the very fact that there are people who can't get vaccinated means that the vaccines are dangerous. You have decided that the folks who decide to skip the vaccines are doing so because they don't get it, when in reality, a lot of them probably understand the dangers. While the people who can't get vaccinated would be merely inconvenienced by changing their lives to avoid the virus, those who take the shot could have life-changing consequences. Also, you claim that people like me will not be able to get a job. I laugh at this. There is already a hospital that won't deliver babies because they can't get enough staff after so many quit over a vaccine mandate. If you and the authoritarians push us out of the economy, be prepared for the consequences. The natural consequences. We'll see how long the mandates last.
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    > It's a false premise because those who would like to get the vaccine, but can't, can voluntarily do things to make sure they don't contract COVID. Instead, they clamor for governments to force people to do something so that they are not inconvenienced. > A lot of the consequences of those choices are artificial. They are authoritarian measures designed to elicit compliance, not natural consequences. Kids 11 and under can’t get vaccinated. Not because its dangerous but because our agency is being extremely thorough. These same kids cannot do anything to mitigate, when they are also in class throughout the day. Oh and masking? That largely prevents spread. by the infected; not so great at preventing someone masked from getting infected. Also, even this level of temporary mandate is being fought. Meanwhile and this point hundreds of millions (billions) of shots; and the risk factors are well-known. Yet this information doesn’t seem matter. > Also, you claim that people like me will not be able to get a job. I laugh at this. There is already a hospital that won't deliver babies because they can't get enough staff after so many quit over a vaccine mandate. Good luck working when insurance companies forces high premiums. > If you and the authoritarians push us out of the economy, be prepared for the consequences. The natural consequences. This is a veiled threat. I’m not an authoritarian at all, but in any society it’s give and take. Some want all of the benefits of society without doing their part, and that will have natural consequences as well. That isn’t a threat. That’s just the market correcting itself because it can’t support the level of welfare you’re advocating.
    - ghoward 5y ago
      > Kids 11 and under can’t get vaccinated. Not because its dangerous but because our agency is being extremely thorough. Kids 11 and under are in basically zero danger from COVID. > Oh and masking? That largely prevents spread. by the infected; not so great at preventing someone masked from getting infected. Also, even this level of temporary mandate is being fought. When masks are worn properly and changed often. That does not happen in the real world. And cloth masks are largely ineffective against viruses like COVID. > Meanwhile and this point hundreds of millions (billions) of shots; and the risk factors are well-known. Yet this information doesn’t seem matter. There is a difference between "heavy testing" (what COVID vaccines have gotten) and proper testing. Proper testing includes heavy samples over a long period. We haven't had a long enough period. > Good luck working when insurance companies forces high premiums. Insurance companies will not raise premiums any more than they have to because insurance is heavily competitive. If people start cancelling insurance plans because they raise the premiums on the unvaccinated, you can bet they'll acquiesce. > This is a veiled threat. I’m not an authoritarian at all, but in any society it’s give and take. Not a veiled threat. I'm talking about the consequences of locking 10% or more of the able people out of the workforce. The economy will suffer. A natural consequence. > Some want all of the benefits of society without doing their part, and that will have natural consequences as well. > That isn’t a threat. That’s just the market correcting itself because it can’t support the level of welfare you’re advocating. I know it's not a threat, but again, the market will correct itself the other way: if people won't work, the mandates will magically disappear. If insurance is not bought, the surcharges will magically disappear.

nobodyandproud 5y ago

What makes it a false premise? People are quite tired of the unvaccinated who choose to opt-out without medical or traditional religious reasons; it’s worn thin because the decision affects people who want to get vaccinated but can’t. You don’t have worry about government mandates, though that’s inevitable. The unvaccinated won’t be able to find a job; or even conduct business the way things are going. And soon, you won’t get ICU beds either. These choices have consequences.

ghoward 5y ago
It's a false premise because those who would like to get the vaccine, but can't, can voluntarily do things to make sure they don't contract COVID. Instead, they clamor for governments to force people to do something so that they are not inconvenienced. A lot of the consequences of those choices are artificial. They are authoritarian measures designed to elicit compliance, not natural consequences. Also, the very fact that there are people who can't get vaccinated means that the vaccines are dangerous. You have decided that the folks who decide to skip the vaccines are doing so because they don't get it, when in reality, a lot of them probably understand the dangers. While the people who can't get vaccinated would be merely inconvenienced by changing their lives to avoid the virus, those who take the shot could have life-changing consequences. Also, you claim that people like me will not be able to get a job. I laugh at this. There is already a hospital that won't deliver babies because they can't get enough staff after so many quit over a vaccine mandate. If you and the authoritarians push us out of the economy, be prepared for the consequences. The natural consequences. We'll see how long the mandates last.
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  > It's a false premise because those who would like to get the vaccine, but can't, can voluntarily do things to make sure they don't contract COVID. Instead, they clamor for governments to force people to do something so that they are not inconvenienced. > A lot of the consequences of those choices are artificial. They are authoritarian measures designed to elicit compliance, not natural consequences. Kids 11 and under can’t get vaccinated. Not because its dangerous but because our agency is being extremely thorough. These same kids cannot do anything to mitigate, when they are also in class throughout the day. Oh and masking? That largely prevents spread. by the infected; not so great at preventing someone masked from getting infected. Also, even this level of temporary mandate is being fought. Meanwhile and this point hundreds of millions (billions) of shots; and the risk factors are well-known. Yet this information doesn’t seem matter. > Also, you claim that people like me will not be able to get a job. I laugh at this. There is already a hospital that won't deliver babies because they can't get enough staff after so many quit over a vaccine mandate. Good luck working when insurance companies forces high premiums. > If you and the authoritarians push us out of the economy, be prepared for the consequences. The natural consequences. This is a veiled threat. I’m not an authoritarian at all, but in any society it’s give and take. Some want all of the benefits of society without doing their part, and that will have natural consequences as well. That isn’t a threat. That’s just the market correcting itself because it can’t support the level of welfare you’re advocating.
  - ghoward 5y ago
    > Kids 11 and under can’t get vaccinated. Not because its dangerous but because our agency is being extremely thorough. Kids 11 and under are in basically zero danger from COVID. > Oh and masking? That largely prevents spread. by the infected; not so great at preventing someone masked from getting infected. Also, even this level of temporary mandate is being fought. When masks are worn properly and changed often. That does not happen in the real world. And cloth masks are largely ineffective against viruses like COVID. > Meanwhile and this point hundreds of millions (billions) of shots; and the risk factors are well-known. Yet this information doesn’t seem matter. There is a difference between "heavy testing" (what COVID vaccines have gotten) and proper testing. Proper testing includes heavy samples over a long period. We haven't had a long enough period. > Good luck working when insurance companies forces high premiums. Insurance companies will not raise premiums any more than they have to because insurance is heavily competitive. If people start cancelling insurance plans because they raise the premiums on the unvaccinated, you can bet they'll acquiesce. > This is a veiled threat. I’m not an authoritarian at all, but in any society it’s give and take. Not a veiled threat. I'm talking about the consequences of locking 10% or more of the able people out of the workforce. The economy will suffer. A natural consequence. > Some want all of the benefits of society without doing their part, and that will have natural consequences as well. > That isn’t a threat. That’s just the market correcting itself because it can’t support the level of welfare you’re advocating. I know it's not a threat, but again, the market will correct itself the other way: if people won't work, the mandates will magically disappear. If insurance is not bought, the surcharges will magically disappear.