5 ms·

This is ridiculous, if a driver is not making money they will stop driving.

UncleMeat 5y ago
Not so. They can be saddled with debt on a depreciating vehicle, meaning that although their overall income may be negative when accounting for the debt, the alternative is even worse.
- slumpt_ 5y ago
  I’m often surprised how long folks can go without understanding the real floor in living conditions a lot of Americans are faced with. I think it’s an empathy gap, but I don’t know how to fix it. Maybe folks need to volunteer in shelters more often. Understand how much closer they are to poverty than they are to Bezos.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    I do think volunteering would help. My work at a food bank has completely disabused me of the idea that people on welfare are just lazy or taking advantage of the system.
Spooky23 5y ago
Not at all. I used to run a IT field services division of a big company. There’s a reason why these last mile services use contractors and third party vehicles! A car isn’t just gas - it’s maintenance, depreciation, etc. For normal use, operating a car costs about $0.60/mile. Livery use like an Uber is a little higher due to maintenance needs. When you work out what a driver actually gets paid, in many scenarios the driver is making very little, and in some they are losing money. Driving Uber is really monetizing automotive depreciation, while working for free. It’s a big accounting grift designed to run until the local competitors are out of business.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  > For normal use, operating a car costs about $0.60/mile. This is when amortizing the full cost of the car. Depreciation due to age, insurance and the whole lot. But these are sunk costs for someone who already needs a car for unrelated reasons. Any of those people are rational to consider only the incremental cost from the additional miles and fuel. And that number is also assuming the typical car owned by people in general, not the typical car used for ride sharing. The most common "car" in the US is a Ford F-150. The most common Uber is a Toyota Prius. Because people aren't as dumb as they're made out to be.
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    Only about 25-30% of per-mile costs are fuel. Depreciation is the biggest component, and that is driven by mileage. My recollection is that the GAO/IRS rates are based on midsize sedans. Three years ago, the average Uber driver made about $0.80/mile according to survey data. You can argue that the costs vary from $0.50/mile and $0.70/mile, but either way the driver is pretty fucked and is selling their asset’s value as well as time. Rental car companies price dynamically based on fleet depreciation in near real-time… there’s a reason why Uber didn’t buy 10,000 Priuses. The car is a sunk cost, but the mileage and wear and tear erodes the value of the asset.

Not so. They can be saddled with debt on a depreciating vehicle, meaning that although their overall income may be negative when accounting for the debt, the alternative is even worse.

slumpt_ 5y ago
I’m often surprised how long folks can go without understanding the real floor in living conditions a lot of Americans are faced with. I think it’s an empathy gap, but I don’t know how to fix it. Maybe folks need to volunteer in shelters more often. Understand how much closer they are to poverty than they are to Bezos.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  I do think volunteering would help. My work at a food bank has completely disabused me of the idea that people on welfare are just lazy or taking advantage of the system.

Spooky23 5y ago

Not at all. I used to run a IT field services division of a big company. There’s a reason why these last mile services use contractors and third party vehicles! A car isn’t just gas - it’s maintenance, depreciation, etc. For normal use, operating a car costs about $0.60/mile. Livery use like an Uber is a little higher due to maintenance needs. When you work out what a driver actually gets paid, in many scenarios the driver is making very little, and in some they are losing money. Driving Uber is really monetizing automotive depreciation, while working for free. It’s a big accounting grift designed to run until the local competitors are out of business.

AnthonyMouse 5y ago
> For normal use, operating a car costs about $0.60/mile. This is when amortizing the full cost of the car. Depreciation due to age, insurance and the whole lot. But these are sunk costs for someone who already needs a car for unrelated reasons. Any of those people are rational to consider only the incremental cost from the additional miles and fuel. And that number is also assuming the typical car owned by people in general, not the typical car used for ride sharing. The most common "car" in the US is a Ford F-150. The most common Uber is a Toyota Prius. Because people aren't as dumb as they're made out to be.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Only about 25-30% of per-mile costs are fuel. Depreciation is the biggest component, and that is driven by mileage. My recollection is that the GAO/IRS rates are based on midsize sedans. Three years ago, the average Uber driver made about $0.80/mile according to survey data. You can argue that the costs vary from $0.50/mile and $0.70/mile, but either way the driver is pretty fucked and is selling their asset’s value as well as time. Rental car companies price dynamically based on fleet depreciation in near real-time… there’s a reason why Uber didn’t buy 10,000 Priuses. The car is a sunk cost, but the mileage and wear and tear erodes the value of the asset.