5 ms·

No vaccine? You're never getting a haircut again. Or buying clothes in a store. Or meeting friends outside or going to a restaurant. Australia is done, I'm mak

by 6nf 5y ago

No vaccine? You're never getting a haircut again. Or buying clothes in a store. Or meeting friends outside or going to a restaurant. Australia is done, I'm making plans to leave. And judging by the downvotes people think this stuff is acceptable?

hug 5y ago
I would rather anti-vaxers leave the country than continue to hang around, yes. Do I think that it will be acceptable if lockdowns continue in Australia past the point at which the various state governments have agreed they will stop (i.e.: the 70% and 80% population vaccinated marks)? No. Do I think the reason why those targets are harder to meet than necessary is because of unscientific fearmongering idiots refusing to get the vaccine? Yes. In a way, I blame this more on you than on the government.
- drcross 5y ago
  If you think you need a vaccine for a disease with a median age of death that's 84 you've badly failed at basic risk analysis and you've been massaged by the machine.
  - 6nf 5y ago
    The government is moving to vaccinate younger and younger kids even though the risk to them from covid is much much less than the risks from the vaccines. In the UK the scientists specifically came out against vaccinating kids because the evidence is not there, but the UK govt is 'ignoring The Science' and moving ahead anyway.
    - throwawayfear 5y ago
      Not only is the evidence not there, but there is new evidence as of a few days ago that it may actually be riskier for them to get the Pfizer jab than to get covid. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r...
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      To be fair, the UK government is not ignoring the scientific consensus that children are more likely to be harmed than benefit from the vaccine, as it knows full well the consequences of its policy. Instead, the government is ignoring the ethics of coercing the young (who can't vote for them) into undergoing a medical procedure which mostly protects the old (who do vote for them).
- throwawayfear 5y ago
  Do you consider people with immunity from past infections to be antivaxers? https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on... Do you believe covid is dangerous enough to justify turning Australia into a totalitarian regime where you need to show papers to go anywhere and have constant surveillance even in your own home? Did you know they’re even dangling how many people can visit your home as a carrot? https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-australia-how-will-they-work-and-what-will-you-need-them-for-167531 https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-... “NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian yesterday announced freedoms for fully vaccinated people once 70% of the state’s eligible population are double dosed. These include being able to go to hospitality venues, hairdressers and gyms, and have five people to your home.” Wake up now before it is too late. You’re falling for their us-them division tactic where they get you to hate the “anti vax” until you build the systems of your own enslavement.
  - hug 5y ago
    > Do you consider people with immunity from past infections to be antivaxers? In Australia, for all intents and purposes, yes. Thanks to the terrible "totalitarian regime", less than one percent of our population has yet to catch COVID. We've had even less deaths! It's fuckin' awesome that we've managed to come out of this so well, almost entirely thanks to lockdown. The route out of lockdown, without massively increasing the numbers of preventable deaths, is vaccination. It's simpler and more expedient for me, and the government, to treat all Australians who refuse to get vaccinated (as opposed to being unable to get vaccinated, of course) as either idiots, petulant children, or misled and out of touch with reality. Either way, I appreciate that the carrot & sometimes the stick is necessary to force people to abide by the laws of their society. Just like it's not your choice to drink and drive, it's not really your choice not to get vaccinated while participating in Australian society. These are the norms that the majority of our country believe in. If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't participate. Go find a community of like-minded rugged individualists somewhere. Move to Texas, maybe. (Sorry, Texans.) > You’re falling for their us-them division tactic where they get you to hate the “anti vax” until you build the systems of your own enslavement. Nah, I already harboured a great deal of spite for anti-vax idiots prior to COVID, didn't need any help from the government. ... And all that said, if the government doesn't remove restrictions once we reach 80% vaccinated and more, I will be fighting those governments tooth and nail. But we're not there yet.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Looks like you fell for it. In many countries blaming that covid still exists is an easy scapegoat. So many people are falling for this line of thinking because everyone needs to blame someome. With two doses you can go out 3 times to every 1 time someone with no shots can. Blame the foolish who think because they are 2 dose vaxxed that they can continue their lives as normal. You can't.. stay home.
  - dustintrex 5y ago
    The equation has changed. Basically everybody is going to get COVID sooner or later, the vaccine just makes it much less likely that you'll get seriously ill from it.
- the_third_wave 5y ago
  > I would rather anti-vaxers leave the country than continue to hang around, yes Those supposed 'anti-vaxers' are more or less guaranteed to be vaccinated for nearly all diseases just like I assume you (and others who insist on calling anyone who is not toeing the party line by that epithet) are. Some people have natural immunity from having had SARS2. Some people are being advised by their doctors not to take the current crop of vaccines. Some people deem their risk from contracting SARS2 lower than the risk of side-effects from the current crop of vaccines. Bodily autonomy is an essential part of a liberal democracy. If you are vaccinated you are mostly protected so why worry over those who do not get vaccinated? They run a higher risk of contracting SARS2, they have a higher risk of ending up in a hospital, they run a higher risk of needing intensive care and they have a higher risk of succumbing to the disease compared to vaccinated people in their own age and risk group. These are all risks to their own health, something you might find stupid and unreasonable but... it is their own choice. The only possible argument you might have in a country with socialised health care (like Oz) is that they may run up health care costs due to their refusal to take the vaccine. Those same people might respond that they do not want the vaccines because they fear potential side effects somewhere down the line. Given the limited amount of long-time experience with mRNA vaccines in humans this is not an unfounded risk, although most side effects seem to occur within 6 months of vaccination and as such should have already become visible. Have you seen the movie 'Babe', the one about the pig which acted like a dog? Do you remember how the sheep in that movie called anything which they deemed to be a threat a 'wolf', leading to a field full of sheep bleating 'wolf' in sheep-speak to each other and to the supposed wolf? Calling anyone who shows the slightest hesitancy towards these rather new vaccines 'anti-vaxxers' (the word seems to be mostly spelled with two 'x'-es) is comparable to how those sheep reacted. Don't be a sheep, Australia has enough of them already.
  - hug 5y ago
    Approximately no one in Australia has 'natural immunity', because approximately no one here has had COVID. Those people who are advised by their docotrs not to get vaccinated are few and far between, but it turns out the current vaccine push takes those figures into account. The people who deem the risk of COVID lower than the vaccine are just straight up incorrect. They're either misled or just deliberately contrarian, and I don't care what they think. All autonomy is important, except where that autonomy would endanger others in society. > If you are vaccinated you are mostly protected so why worry over those who do not get vaccinated? If they also opt-out of taking up hospital care necessary for treating those people who didn't refuse a vaccine, honestly, I'd be okay with it. But we both know that won't happen. It'll end up like the US where there are people dying in the ER because there's no room due to COVID cases, and I do not want Australia to end up like the US. > Have you seen the movie 'Babe', the one about the pig which acted like a dog? [...] Don't be a sheep, Australia has enough of them already. All of this is very ironic, given that the group you are implying are the wolves are the ones taking livestock medication.

by 6nf 5y ago

hug 5y ago

I would rather anti-vaxers leave the country than continue to hang around, yes. Do I think that it will be acceptable if lockdowns continue in Australia past the point at which the various state governments have agreed they will stop (i.e.: the 70% and 80% population vaccinated marks)? No. Do I think the reason why those targets are harder to meet than necessary is because of unscientific fearmongering idiots refusing to get the vaccine? Yes. In a way, I blame this more on you than on the government.

drcross 5y ago
If you think you need a vaccine for a disease with a median age of death that's 84 you've badly failed at basic risk analysis and you've been massaged by the machine.
- 6nf 5y ago
  The government is moving to vaccinate younger and younger kids even though the risk to them from covid is much much less than the risks from the vaccines. In the UK the scientists specifically came out against vaccinating kids because the evidence is not there, but the UK govt is 'ignoring The Science' and moving ahead anyway.
  - throwawayfear 5y ago
    Not only is the evidence not there, but there is new evidence as of a few days ago that it may actually be riskier for them to get the Pfizer jab than to get covid. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r...
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    To be fair, the UK government is not ignoring the scientific consensus that children are more likely to be harmed than benefit from the vaccine, as it knows full well the consequences of its policy. Instead, the government is ignoring the ethics of coercing the young (who can't vote for them) into undergoing a medical procedure which mostly protects the old (who do vote for them).
throwawayfear 5y ago
Do you consider people with immunity from past infections to be antivaxers? https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on... Do you believe covid is dangerous enough to justify turning Australia into a totalitarian regime where you need to show papers to go anywhere and have constant surveillance even in your own home? Did you know they’re even dangling how many people can visit your home as a carrot? https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-australia-how-will-they-work-and-what-will-you-need-them-for-167531 https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-... “NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian yesterday announced freedoms for fully vaccinated people once 70% of the state’s eligible population are double dosed. These include being able to go to hospitality venues, hairdressers and gyms, and have five people to your home.” Wake up now before it is too late. You’re falling for their us-them division tactic where they get you to hate the “anti vax” until you build the systems of your own enslavement.
- hug 5y ago
  > Do you consider people with immunity from past infections to be antivaxers? In Australia, for all intents and purposes, yes. Thanks to the terrible "totalitarian regime", less than one percent of our population has yet to catch COVID. We've had even less deaths! It's fuckin' awesome that we've managed to come out of this so well, almost entirely thanks to lockdown. The route out of lockdown, without massively increasing the numbers of preventable deaths, is vaccination. It's simpler and more expedient for me, and the government, to treat all Australians who refuse to get vaccinated (as opposed to being unable to get vaccinated, of course) as either idiots, petulant children, or misled and out of touch with reality. Either way, I appreciate that the carrot & sometimes the stick is necessary to force people to abide by the laws of their society. Just like it's not your choice to drink and drive, it's not really your choice not to get vaccinated while participating in Australian society. These are the norms that the majority of our country believe in. If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't participate. Go find a community of like-minded rugged individualists somewhere. Move to Texas, maybe. (Sorry, Texans.) > You’re falling for their us-them division tactic where they get you to hate the “anti vax” until you build the systems of your own enslavement. Nah, I already harboured a great deal of spite for anti-vax idiots prior to COVID, didn't need any help from the government. ... And all that said, if the government doesn't remove restrictions once we reach 80% vaccinated and more, I will be fighting those governments tooth and nail. But we're not there yet.
ipaddr 5y ago
Looks like you fell for it. In many countries blaming that covid still exists is an easy scapegoat. So many people are falling for this line of thinking because everyone needs to blame someome. With two doses you can go out 3 times to every 1 time someone with no shots can. Blame the foolish who think because they are 2 dose vaxxed that they can continue their lives as normal. You can't.. stay home.
- dustintrex 5y ago
  The equation has changed. Basically everybody is going to get COVID sooner or later, the vaccine just makes it much less likely that you'll get seriously ill from it.
the_third_wave 5y ago
> I would rather anti-vaxers leave the country than continue to hang around, yes Those supposed 'anti-vaxers' are more or less guaranteed to be vaccinated for nearly all diseases just like I assume you (and others who insist on calling anyone who is not toeing the party line by that epithet) are. Some people have natural immunity from having had SARS2. Some people are being advised by their doctors not to take the current crop of vaccines. Some people deem their risk from contracting SARS2 lower than the risk of side-effects from the current crop of vaccines. Bodily autonomy is an essential part of a liberal democracy. If you are vaccinated you are mostly protected so why worry over those who do not get vaccinated? They run a higher risk of contracting SARS2, they have a higher risk of ending up in a hospital, they run a higher risk of needing intensive care and they have a higher risk of succumbing to the disease compared to vaccinated people in their own age and risk group. These are all risks to their own health, something you might find stupid and unreasonable but... it is their own choice. The only possible argument you might have in a country with socialised health care (like Oz) is that they may run up health care costs due to their refusal to take the vaccine. Those same people might respond that they do not want the vaccines because they fear potential side effects somewhere down the line. Given the limited amount of long-time experience with mRNA vaccines in humans this is not an unfounded risk, although most side effects seem to occur within 6 months of vaccination and as such should have already become visible. Have you seen the movie 'Babe', the one about the pig which acted like a dog? Do you remember how the sheep in that movie called anything which they deemed to be a threat a 'wolf', leading to a field full of sheep bleating 'wolf' in sheep-speak to each other and to the supposed wolf? Calling anyone who shows the slightest hesitancy towards these rather new vaccines 'anti-vaxxers' (the word seems to be mostly spelled with two 'x'-es) is comparable to how those sheep reacted. Don't be a sheep, Australia has enough of them already.
- hug 5y ago
  Approximately no one in Australia has 'natural immunity', because approximately no one here has had COVID. Those people who are advised by their docotrs not to get vaccinated are few and far between, but it turns out the current vaccine push takes those figures into account. The people who deem the risk of COVID lower than the vaccine are just straight up incorrect. They're either misled or just deliberately contrarian, and I don't care what they think. All autonomy is important, except where that autonomy would endanger others in society. > If you are vaccinated you are mostly protected so why worry over those who do not get vaccinated? If they also opt-out of taking up hospital care necessary for treating those people who didn't refuse a vaccine, honestly, I'd be okay with it. But we both know that won't happen. It'll end up like the US where there are people dying in the ER because there's no room due to COVID cases, and I do not want Australia to end up like the US. > Have you seen the movie 'Babe', the one about the pig which acted like a dog? [...] Don't be a sheep, Australia has enough of them already. All of this is very ironic, given that the group you are implying are the wolves are the ones taking livestock medication.