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People get sick. It happens. I am well-aware that by resuming my pre-pandemic lifestyle, and only wearing a mask in the spaces where they're mandatory, I am inc

People get sick. It happens. I am well-aware that by resuming my pre-pandemic lifestyle, and only wearing a mask in the spaces where they're mandatory, I am increasing my risk of getting ill. But I'm not going to change my behavior, because I'd rather be sick for a week than sit at home 24/7 for the next year, or wear a mask every time I step outside, and constantly monitor my physical distance from other people. My life is passing me by right now, and I want to enjoy it while I can.

Jabbles 5y ago
- sit at home 24/7 - wear a mask These 2 things seem rather different in magnitude.
- quantified 5y ago
  Especially because a lot of outside doesn’t need a mask. If you live in a dense urban core, it might. If you live in light urban, or suburban/rural, you can mask when stepping into the store or whatever. Don’t forget that masks are to protect others at least as much as yourself.
  - dv_dt 5y ago
    And wearing a mask is not just direct individual risk reduction either. Preventing spread reduces opportunities for the virus to mutate, which reduces the larger systemic risk that a new mutation is created that is even more adapted to bypassing vaccines and masks.
  - akira2501 5y ago
    > Don’t forget that masks are to protect others at least as much as yourself. That seems to depend on the mask itself, some masks explicitly state that they offer no protection to the wearer and only serve to provide protection to others _from_ the wearer. This article, for me, highlights one of the major problems of this entire response. Various establishments keep trying to present a rather black-and-white binary view on these subjects. They're doing a particularly poor job of explaining the spectrum of risks and protections that are available and how to apply that knowledge to your own individual circumstances.
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    > masks are to protect others at least as much as I had a different underestanding: I thought masks are to protect others, overwhelmingly, and there might also be some protecting power for yourself, in a much lesser amount. The concept is consistent with "since you can, limit dispersing the droplets". I unfortunately do not have bookmarked articles about this though. Do you have any good source (e.g. to state that masks have a protecting power for the wearer comparable to that for the others)?
    - unearth3d 5y ago
      You're correct, that is our understanding in NZ, mask wearing is almost entirely about protecting others by limiting the projection range of droplets. It works if everyone wears a mask.
    - quantified 5y ago
      Yes, 99.5% counts as “mostly”, I was just emphasizing that “I don’t want to wear a mask” is “I don’t care to protect you” not “I don’t care enough about the risk to myself too wear a mask”.
- awsthro00945 5y ago
  I've been seeing this a lot amongst anti-mask arguments. Antimaskers unironically equate wearing a mask to some type of life-altering, oppressive action. It's absurd. Amongst all of our social responsibilities as human being, wearing a mask is probably the easiest, most bare-minimum thing imaginable, right up there with "don't litter". And just like I don't respect people who litter, I don't at all respect people who don't wear masks in crowded places. edit: wowfunhappy deleted their comment, but previously it said that the reason they don't wear a mask is because "it fogs up my glasses and is hot and sweaty", and went on to say that such hardships "affect [them] psychologically". This is exactly what I'm referring to in the first sentence of my comment. Absurdity.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    I can accept that there may be a continuum of taste in terms of how onerous wearing a mask is. But I don't really know how it can be that bad when my six year old managed it all year last year for school.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    The damn thing fogs up my classes when it's cold, and is hot and sweaty when it's warm. When I speak, I frequently have to repeat myself, and I can't casually take a sip of water or eat a snack. And while this part pertains more to other people wearing masks—I honestly feel like universal masking affects me psychologically. I have a huge amount of trouble recognizing people's faces when their masks are on—I didn't even recognize my sister when I ran into her on the subway—and I'm not able to read anyone's expressions. I'm not an anti-masker, and I wore one diligently throughout 2020 and early 2021, but I'm just not willing to do it forever! Wearing a mask is by no means torturous, but I really do think it is life-altering. Similar to social distancing, masks change every single interaction I have with others. I'm aware that masks protect others in addition to myself, but where does my responsibility end? I wear a mask on public transit, and I'll wear a mask any time someone asks me to put one on. But I'm not going to wear one otherwise, and I'm significantly less likely to go into a store if there's a sign on the front that masks are required. I think I should be able to make that choice, and other people can make the opposite choice. --- Edit: Re your edit, sorry about that, I actually deleted the above comment from downthread in order to post it here instead, and our actions seem to have crossed.
snupples 5y ago
The mask is to protect others as much as it is to protect yourself. You can be contagious and spread it for up to two weeks without symptoms. It's unfortunate that wearing a mask is such a hardship for you.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- vl 5y ago
  But how exactly paper ill-fitted masks protect against aerosol-spread virus?
  - nkozyra 5y ago
    In an ill fitted mask? Not well. The suspension of the virus in aerosol is precisely why masks have any efficacy in the first place, since the viruses themselves could easily permeate without it.
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    By reducing the number of aerosol particles that escape the mask and thus reducing your chances of infecting someone else.
  - tasty_freeze 5y ago
    If the standard is zero transmission, then they are useless. But that isn't had has never been the claim. N95 is better than simple masks, but they are more expensive, initially were in short supply, and uncomfortable. But this is all about statistics. Simple masks reduce the chance of catching it by some small amount (say 15%) and reduce the emission of virus particles by something like 50% (it all depends on the mask). This doesn't mean the odds are cut in half; it means the exponent of the spread of the virus is cut in half.
  - nvr219 5y ago
    Here you go chief: https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-abou...
5faulker 5y ago
Nice attitude. Time flies whether you like it or not.
- bequanna 5y ago
  Our perception of time seems to be related to the number of new experiences we have. If every day is exactly like ever other, you quite literally are losing a portion of your life.
  - birdyrooster 5y ago
    Again another false dichotomy. Wearing a mask and social distancing doesn’t preclude you from new experiences. One could argue living to have more masked experiences is more experiences. Having more people living to share those experiences with, is more experiences.
    - JohnWhigham 5y ago
      I don't understand how some of you seem perfectly content to want to wear a mask everywhere for the rest of your existence.
      - jasonladuke0311 5y ago
        It’s completely insane. I suspect a lot of people that share this view live their entire lives through a computer/phone/TV screen.
        birdyrooster 5y ago
        I go outdoors and hike beautiful coasts and mountains, enjoy properly socially distanced dining outdoors, and follow the guidelines given by CDC. I go out a lot but I manage the risk accordingly. There are lots of people that don’t want to take a single precaution. It’s like saying “I don’t want to wear a condom having casual sex”, eventually that person is going to get herpes or hpv. I guess I realize now why those diseases are so common is because many people fail to take precautions so they can have “more experiences”.
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
Everyone can make their own choices, but I don't mind wearing a mask in optional scenarios if it gives me a good chance of avoiding a difficult and feverish few days with above average risk of hospitalization compared to flu. I can definitely picture wearing masks on an ongoing basis e.g. on mass transit even once the pandemic is done. On the other hand, we are still taking measured risks like eating indoors in not too crowded restaurants. My tolerance will likely increase once my children are both vaxxed but at the rate we're going that won't be for a while. It's worth considering the continuum between taking the minimum possible measures and the maximum. There is space between those two.
- htlkjlrh 5y ago
  I mind wearing a mask. I mind not being able to go to private businesses. I mind being yelled at while walking alone on a nature trail in the middle of nowhere for not wearing a mask. I mind my civil liberties being stolen from me. I mind the government using VIOLENCE to inject me with a unknown 'vaccine' that has cause more deaths than those without. I mind the fact that some governments such as Australia are literally building concentration camps as we speak. CONCENTRATION CAMPS! Do you speak Nazi!?!! FUCK EVERYTHING ABOUT COVID and FUCK YOU if you support any covid measure.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  > eating indoors in not too crowded restaurants. This is one of the potentially higher risk activities that I see commonly accepted. If your area has high rates of community spread and/or the restraunt has poor ventilation, this is probably a risk that should be avoided. Choosing restraunts with outdoor seating or getting takeout to eat in a park is a very minor sacrifice to cut out one of the hishest risk activities that people commonly engage in
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    > [Indoor dining] is probably a risk that should be avoided Eh. I have seen conflicting data on this. For example, some studies attributed only 1% of COVID spread to indoor dining (sorry in advance, I don't have a citation). My area is very highly vaccinated and requires all people to show a vaccine card to eat indoors, and while we do have some cases, the per capita rate right now is about 1/10000 and level. Also, point of order, you can tell me I "should" do something according to your values, or according to some mutually agreed standard (which in this case does not exist), but you cannot tell me what I should do according to my values. I feel like this is a point of communication disconnect between those of us who favor increased or decreased COVID restrictions.
birdyrooster 5y ago
Or you know you can adjust your lifestyle and still enjoy it without it needing to be the same as pre-pandemic. Have some more imagination.
crixlet 5y ago
do you have kids, or know anyone who has kids that are unable to get vaccinated?
- iammisc 5y ago
  Kids should get infected so they have immunity. The vast majority of children will experience no symptoms or an extremely mild cold. You should be more worried about the flu.
  - sroussey 5y ago
    That we know of. Delta is killing some children, but low numbers. COVID-19 can infect brain cells and organs, so very much not like other viruses, and definitely not like the flu (or colds) which is limited to acidic cells from your nose to your lungs (and stomach).
    - iammisc 5y ago
      My mom was a teacher. One Friday she said good bye to a student. On Saturday the student went blind. On Sunday he died of meningitis Lots of terrible things happen to children in low numbers. Lots of terrible things happen to adults in low numbers. Never have we locked people in the house for that
      - sroussey 5y ago
        I take it that Covid has yet to kill any of your family members.
        iammisc 5y ago
        My family members have been hospitalized for the covid vaccine and some have died while my other family members are left alone outside the hospital desperate to see our relatives who have been imprisoned in the system with no oversight. Others have been hospitalized for non covid reasons, had their spouse/close relative kicked out of the room, and then gone on to suffer medical abuse and neglect, including being fed food that is not compatible with their medical history for months on end causing endless pain, as well as permanent disfigurement. So spare me the lectures and the pain Olympics. And yes some have died of covid, as some every year die of cancer, flu, and other diseases.
tessierashpool 5y ago
I'd rather be sick for a week this is a completely absurd assumption, and not appropriate for the standard of serious discourse this site aims for. you could have no symptoms at all. you could die. you could suffer serious cognitive effects which eliminate your ability to work, read books, or even watch TV. you could get sick and stay sick for the rest of your life. we don't know the exact duration of long covid, but there are plenty of people who got sick in early 2020 and haven't gotten better yet. there's a huge range of symptoms. in the dreamworld you posit here, where getting sick for a week would be the worst-case scenario, your reasoning would make sense, but nobody lives there, because that place doesn't exist.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  But doesn't this apply to everything? When you crash your car, you could walk away unscathed. You could die. You could suffer serious cognitive effects which eliminates your ability to work, read books, or even watch TV. Should people be afraid to drive?† My question for you would be, when does this end? I'm vaccinated, and the vaccines are very effective. Should we all be practicing social distancing for the rest of our lives? --- † Actually, maybe yeah, I think the number of people who die in car crashes is reason enough to move away from them as a primary mode of transport, even putting aside environmental concerns. But the point is, we have decided to accept this risk.
  - YZF 5y ago
    I think a better analogy is drunk driving because we are talking about risk to yourself and the risk you present to others. What about those people who really want to experience driving while high or drunk? What sort of freedom do we have where we prevent those activities? Should you be allowed to drive drunk on a private road? Well, as long as I'm not paying your health bills, you fully recycle your trashed vehicle, and there's no other externality - go for it... Is asking people not to drive drunk too much? Apparently it is because there are lots of people who do it. EDIT: You do make a good point re: what's the exit strategy. My personal thoughts are we take some reasonable measures, especially during times when the virus is very active, but we should resume a more normal life. The people who don't get to resume a normal life should be those that have made the choice not to get a vaccine. To continue on my analogy, you choose to get drunk at the party, driving home is not an option as much as you'd really like to do that.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jrochkind1 5y ago
So, the expert in the article agreess you shouldn't sit at home 24/7 for the next year: > Even with delta, the goal is not to go back to a lockdown mindset, though, says Malani. "My hope is that people who are fully vaccinated should really feel like this risk is manageable." > "Feel good about spending time with your friends, or having a small dinner party, but make sure everyone is vaccinated," she says But you probably should still be wearing masks in crowded indoor locations and avoiding/reducing large gatherings. Since it's all statistical, it's not all of nothing, going to an occasional large gathering isn't the same as might as well go to one every day, you can prioritize ones important to you. But it's up to you. The important thing is if you do get sick or know you're sick, please quarantine to avoid infecting others. The annoying thing is, all the risks are proportional to how much covid there is in the community. If we could get rates down, then we wouldn't have to worry so much. So it's not just about what we are willing to risk personally, it's about trying to change social behavior to get risks much further down, so everyone in the community can do more stuff safer!
throwaway20371 5y ago
And I want to be able to climb a mountain, drink alcohol, taste pizza, and live past age 70. All of those things can go out the window with a severe case of COVID-19, and potentially even with an asymptomatic case, due to the long-term effects of scarring on multiple organs, and unknown long-term neurological effects. I know humans always prioritize short-term goals over long-term. But personally, I am fine with wearing a mask or staying in for a year, to ensure my health for the next 70 years. I also wear condoms when having sex with strangers. Crazy, I know, but somehow getting a lifelong disease just doesn't seem worth the momentary pleasure. All you have to do is listen to the stories of young people who are now on a breathing machine for life. If that doesn't scare the fucking bejesus out of you, I don't know what will.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  All respiratory viruses can have long term effects. I’ve had super annoying colds that refused to go away for like 6 months. Covid is no different. So many people are so absolutely petrified over covid. It’s like they suddenly woke up and realized that respiratory viruses can suck and people die of horrible illness. None of this is unique to covid. It’s life. There are no guarantees. What we are doing now is not living. Vaccines were it. Time to return to actual normal.
  - throwaway20371 5y ago
    > Covid is no different. Covid-19 is literally a neurological disease. It causes the body to attack itself, like an autoimmune disease, which is what is leading to the incredibly high number of severe cases leading to death. And all of the long-term, quality-of-life-impacting side-effects that have nothing to do with respiratory viruses. This has been reported for over a year. > It’s life. There are no guarantees. There's no guarantee you will get AIDS Or HepC if you have unprotected sex. Time to throw away the rubbers, we can't stop living life now can we? Oh, wait. You can still fuck with rubbers. I guess you don't have to choose between not fucking or getting AIDS. Just like you don't have to choose between being a hermit and making out with a dozen strangers at a bar. These things called "masks" are there to reduce risk without forcing us to stop living life.
UncleMeat 5y ago
> sit at home 24/7 for the next year, or wear a mask every time I step outside These are extremely extremely extremely different things.
neilv 5y ago
Living in a dense, student-heavy neighborhood of the Boston area, I really hope that this isn't the thinking of many students who just arrived, from all over. The thinking is understandable, but a pandemic like Covid-19 seems like one scenario in which a billion small individual sacrifices together could've (and possibly still can) be a dramatically positive net benefit to the world. One way to think about the significance of minor individual sacrifice like voluntarily masking (where it's not absolutely required by law/rules) is that every infection will tend to spread exponentially. Passing it on to even only one person seems like that would likely result in at least one tragedy for someone else's family. IIUC, masking reduces that significantly, so masking when I believe there's a significant risk of spread seems an easy decision to me.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  My question for you is, what is the end point? I am willing to wear a mask and practice social distancing for a period of time—in the aim of some goal. I'm not willing to do it forever. Which is why I wore a mask until this summer when vaccines were widely available. Give me an end date, and explain why things will be different then, and I'll do it! Honestly! But right now, I'm looking around and I'm not seeing a timeline.
  - TillE 5y ago
    It's a pandemic. Why would you expect a firm end date? I know we're living in strange and difficult times, but I feel like a lot of people haven't accepted that just because you're tired of it, doesn't mean the pandemic is over, doesn't mean it's a good idea to stop taking measures to reduce illness and death.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Because we think the powers that be might not ever let it be "over". Remember that after it became apparent that "two weeks" was a lie, the next lie where the goalposts were moved to was "once a vaccine is widely available".

Jabbles 5y ago

- sit at home 24/7 - wear a mask These 2 things seem rather different in magnitude.

quantified 5y ago
Especially because a lot of outside doesn’t need a mask. If you live in a dense urban core, it might. If you live in light urban, or suburban/rural, you can mask when stepping into the store or whatever. Don’t forget that masks are to protect others at least as much as yourself.
- dv_dt 5y ago
  And wearing a mask is not just direct individual risk reduction either. Preventing spread reduces opportunities for the virus to mutate, which reduces the larger systemic risk that a new mutation is created that is even more adapted to bypassing vaccines and masks.
- akira2501 5y ago
  > Don’t forget that masks are to protect others at least as much as yourself. That seems to depend on the mask itself, some masks explicitly state that they offer no protection to the wearer and only serve to provide protection to others _from_ the wearer. This article, for me, highlights one of the major problems of this entire response. Various establishments keep trying to present a rather black-and-white binary view on these subjects. They're doing a particularly poor job of explaining the spectrum of risks and protections that are available and how to apply that knowledge to your own individual circumstances.
- mdp2021 5y ago
  > masks are to protect others at least as much as I had a different underestanding: I thought masks are to protect others, overwhelmingly, and there might also be some protecting power for yourself, in a much lesser amount. The concept is consistent with "since you can, limit dispersing the droplets". I unfortunately do not have bookmarked articles about this though. Do you have any good source (e.g. to state that masks have a protecting power for the wearer comparable to that for the others)?
  - unearth3d 5y ago
    You're correct, that is our understanding in NZ, mask wearing is almost entirely about protecting others by limiting the projection range of droplets. It works if everyone wears a mask.
  - quantified 5y ago
    Yes, 99.5% counts as “mostly”, I was just emphasizing that “I don’t want to wear a mask” is “I don’t care to protect you” not “I don’t care enough about the risk to myself too wear a mask”.
awsthro00945 5y ago
I've been seeing this a lot amongst anti-mask arguments. Antimaskers unironically equate wearing a mask to some type of life-altering, oppressive action. It's absurd. Amongst all of our social responsibilities as human being, wearing a mask is probably the easiest, most bare-minimum thing imaginable, right up there with "don't litter". And just like I don't respect people who litter, I don't at all respect people who don't wear masks in crowded places. edit: wowfunhappy deleted their comment, but previously it said that the reason they don't wear a mask is because "it fogs up my glasses and is hot and sweaty", and went on to say that such hardships "affect [them] psychologically". This is exactly what I'm referring to in the first sentence of my comment. Absurdity.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  I can accept that there may be a continuum of taste in terms of how onerous wearing a mask is. But I don't really know how it can be that bad when my six year old managed it all year last year for school.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  The damn thing fogs up my classes when it's cold, and is hot and sweaty when it's warm. When I speak, I frequently have to repeat myself, and I can't casually take a sip of water or eat a snack. And while this part pertains more to other people wearing masks—I honestly feel like universal masking affects me psychologically. I have a huge amount of trouble recognizing people's faces when their masks are on—I didn't even recognize my sister when I ran into her on the subway—and I'm not able to read anyone's expressions. I'm not an anti-masker, and I wore one diligently throughout 2020 and early 2021, but I'm just not willing to do it forever! Wearing a mask is by no means torturous, but I really do think it is life-altering. Similar to social distancing, masks change every single interaction I have with others. I'm aware that masks protect others in addition to myself, but where does my responsibility end? I wear a mask on public transit, and I'll wear a mask any time someone asks me to put one on. But I'm not going to wear one otherwise, and I'm significantly less likely to go into a store if there's a sign on the front that masks are required. I think I should be able to make that choice, and other people can make the opposite choice. --- Edit: Re your edit, sorry about that, I actually deleted the above comment from downthread in order to post it here instead, and our actions seem to have crossed.

snupples 5y ago

The mask is to protect others as much as it is to protect yourself. You can be contagious and spread it for up to two weeks without symptoms. It's unfortunate that wearing a mask is such a hardship for you.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
vl 5y ago
But how exactly paper ill-fitted masks protect against aerosol-spread virus?
- nkozyra 5y ago
  In an ill fitted mask? Not well. The suspension of the virus in aerosol is precisely why masks have any efficacy in the first place, since the viruses themselves could easily permeate without it.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  By reducing the number of aerosol particles that escape the mask and thus reducing your chances of infecting someone else.
- tasty_freeze 5y ago
  If the standard is zero transmission, then they are useless. But that isn't had has never been the claim. N95 is better than simple masks, but they are more expensive, initially were in short supply, and uncomfortable. But this is all about statistics. Simple masks reduce the chance of catching it by some small amount (say 15%) and reduce the emission of virus particles by something like 50% (it all depends on the mask). This doesn't mean the odds are cut in half; it means the exponent of the spread of the virus is cut in half.
- nvr219 5y ago
  Here you go chief: https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-abou...

5faulker 5y ago

Nice attitude. Time flies whether you like it or not.

bequanna 5y ago
Our perception of time seems to be related to the number of new experiences we have. If every day is exactly like ever other, you quite literally are losing a portion of your life.
- birdyrooster 5y ago
  Again another false dichotomy. Wearing a mask and social distancing doesn’t preclude you from new experiences. One could argue living to have more masked experiences is more experiences. Having more people living to share those experiences with, is more experiences.
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    I don't understand how some of you seem perfectly content to want to wear a mask everywhere for the rest of your existence.
    - jasonladuke0311 5y ago
      It’s completely insane. I suspect a lot of people that share this view live their entire lives through a computer/phone/TV screen.
      - birdyrooster 5y ago
        I go outdoors and hike beautiful coasts and mountains, enjoy properly socially distanced dining outdoors, and follow the guidelines given by CDC. I go out a lot but I manage the risk accordingly. There are lots of people that don’t want to take a single precaution. It’s like saying “I don’t want to wear a condom having casual sex”, eventually that person is going to get herpes or hpv. I guess I realize now why those diseases are so common is because many people fail to take precautions so they can have “more experiences”.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

Everyone can make their own choices, but I don't mind wearing a mask in optional scenarios if it gives me a good chance of avoiding a difficult and feverish few days with above average risk of hospitalization compared to flu. I can definitely picture wearing masks on an ongoing basis e.g. on mass transit even once the pandemic is done. On the other hand, we are still taking measured risks like eating indoors in not too crowded restaurants. My tolerance will likely increase once my children are both vaxxed but at the rate we're going that won't be for a while. It's worth considering the continuum between taking the minimum possible measures and the maximum. There is space between those two.

htlkjlrh 5y ago
I mind wearing a mask. I mind not being able to go to private businesses. I mind being yelled at while walking alone on a nature trail in the middle of nowhere for not wearing a mask. I mind my civil liberties being stolen from me. I mind the government using VIOLENCE to inject me with a unknown 'vaccine' that has cause more deaths than those without. I mind the fact that some governments such as Australia are literally building concentration camps as we speak. CONCENTRATION CAMPS! Do you speak Nazi!?!! FUCK EVERYTHING ABOUT COVID and FUCK YOU if you support any covid measure.
shkkmo 5y ago
> eating indoors in not too crowded restaurants. This is one of the potentially higher risk activities that I see commonly accepted. If your area has high rates of community spread and/or the restraunt has poor ventilation, this is probably a risk that should be avoided. Choosing restraunts with outdoor seating or getting takeout to eat in a park is a very minor sacrifice to cut out one of the hishest risk activities that people commonly engage in
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  > [Indoor dining] is probably a risk that should be avoided Eh. I have seen conflicting data on this. For example, some studies attributed only 1% of COVID spread to indoor dining (sorry in advance, I don't have a citation). My area is very highly vaccinated and requires all people to show a vaccine card to eat indoors, and while we do have some cases, the per capita rate right now is about 1/10000 and level. Also, point of order, you can tell me I "should" do something according to your values, or according to some mutually agreed standard (which in this case does not exist), but you cannot tell me what I should do according to my values. I feel like this is a point of communication disconnect between those of us who favor increased or decreased COVID restrictions.

birdyrooster 5y ago

Or you know you can adjust your lifestyle and still enjoy it without it needing to be the same as pre-pandemic. Have some more imagination.

crixlet 5y ago

do you have kids, or know anyone who has kids that are unable to get vaccinated?

iammisc 5y ago
Kids should get infected so they have immunity. The vast majority of children will experience no symptoms or an extremely mild cold. You should be more worried about the flu.
- sroussey 5y ago
  That we know of. Delta is killing some children, but low numbers. COVID-19 can infect brain cells and organs, so very much not like other viruses, and definitely not like the flu (or colds) which is limited to acidic cells from your nose to your lungs (and stomach).
  - iammisc 5y ago
    My mom was a teacher. One Friday she said good bye to a student. On Saturday the student went blind. On Sunday he died of meningitis Lots of terrible things happen to children in low numbers. Lots of terrible things happen to adults in low numbers. Never have we locked people in the house for that
    - sroussey 5y ago
      I take it that Covid has yet to kill any of your family members.
      - iammisc 5y ago
        My family members have been hospitalized for the covid vaccine and some have died while my other family members are left alone outside the hospital desperate to see our relatives who have been imprisoned in the system with no oversight. Others have been hospitalized for non covid reasons, had their spouse/close relative kicked out of the room, and then gone on to suffer medical abuse and neglect, including being fed food that is not compatible with their medical history for months on end causing endless pain, as well as permanent disfigurement. So spare me the lectures and the pain Olympics. And yes some have died of covid, as some every year die of cancer, flu, and other diseases.

tessierashpool 5y ago

I'd rather be sick for a week this is a completely absurd assumption, and not appropriate for the standard of serious discourse this site aims for. you could have no symptoms at all. you could die. you could suffer serious cognitive effects which eliminate your ability to work, read books, or even watch TV. you could get sick and stay sick for the rest of your life. we don't know the exact duration of long covid, but there are plenty of people who got sick in early 2020 and haven't gotten better yet. there's a huge range of symptoms. in the dreamworld you posit here, where getting sick for a week would be the worst-case scenario, your reasoning would make sense, but nobody lives there, because that place doesn't exist.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
But doesn't this apply to everything? When you crash your car, you could walk away unscathed. You could die. You could suffer serious cognitive effects which eliminates your ability to work, read books, or even watch TV. Should people be afraid to drive?† My question for you would be, when does this end? I'm vaccinated, and the vaccines are very effective. Should we all be practicing social distancing for the rest of our lives? --- † Actually, maybe yeah, I think the number of people who die in car crashes is reason enough to move away from them as a primary mode of transport, even putting aside environmental concerns. But the point is, we have decided to accept this risk.
- YZF 5y ago
  I think a better analogy is drunk driving because we are talking about risk to yourself and the risk you present to others. What about those people who really want to experience driving while high or drunk? What sort of freedom do we have where we prevent those activities? Should you be allowed to drive drunk on a private road? Well, as long as I'm not paying your health bills, you fully recycle your trashed vehicle, and there's no other externality - go for it... Is asking people not to drive drunk too much? Apparently it is because there are lots of people who do it. EDIT: You do make a good point re: what's the exit strategy. My personal thoughts are we take some reasonable measures, especially during times when the virus is very active, but we should resume a more normal life. The people who don't get to resume a normal life should be those that have made the choice not to get a vaccine. To continue on my analogy, you choose to get drunk at the party, driving home is not an option as much as you'd really like to do that.

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jrochkind1 5y ago

So, the expert in the article agreess you shouldn't sit at home 24/7 for the next year: > Even with delta, the goal is not to go back to a lockdown mindset, though, says Malani. "My hope is that people who are fully vaccinated should really feel like this risk is manageable." > "Feel good about spending time with your friends, or having a small dinner party, but make sure everyone is vaccinated," she says But you probably should still be wearing masks in crowded indoor locations and avoiding/reducing large gatherings. Since it's all statistical, it's not all of nothing, going to an occasional large gathering isn't the same as might as well go to one every day, you can prioritize ones important to you. But it's up to you. The important thing is if you do get sick or know you're sick, please quarantine to avoid infecting others. The annoying thing is, all the risks are proportional to how much covid there is in the community. If we could get rates down, then we wouldn't have to worry so much. So it's not just about what we are willing to risk personally, it's about trying to change social behavior to get risks much further down, so everyone in the community can do more stuff safer!

throwaway20371 5y ago

And I want to be able to climb a mountain, drink alcohol, taste pizza, and live past age 70. All of those things can go out the window with a severe case of COVID-19, and potentially even with an asymptomatic case, due to the long-term effects of scarring on multiple organs, and unknown long-term neurological effects. I know humans always prioritize short-term goals over long-term. But personally, I am fine with wearing a mask or staying in for a year, to ensure my health for the next 70 years. I also wear condoms when having sex with strangers. Crazy, I know, but somehow getting a lifelong disease just doesn't seem worth the momentary pleasure. All you have to do is listen to the stories of young people who are now on a breathing machine for life. If that doesn't scare the fucking bejesus out of you, I don't know what will.

spookthesunset 5y ago
All respiratory viruses can have long term effects. I’ve had super annoying colds that refused to go away for like 6 months. Covid is no different. So many people are so absolutely petrified over covid. It’s like they suddenly woke up and realized that respiratory viruses can suck and people die of horrible illness. None of this is unique to covid. It’s life. There are no guarantees. What we are doing now is not living. Vaccines were it. Time to return to actual normal.
- throwaway20371 5y ago
  > Covid is no different. Covid-19 is literally a neurological disease. It causes the body to attack itself, like an autoimmune disease, which is what is leading to the incredibly high number of severe cases leading to death. And all of the long-term, quality-of-life-impacting side-effects that have nothing to do with respiratory viruses. This has been reported for over a year. > It’s life. There are no guarantees. There's no guarantee you will get AIDS Or HepC if you have unprotected sex. Time to throw away the rubbers, we can't stop living life now can we? Oh, wait. You can still fuck with rubbers. I guess you don't have to choose between not fucking or getting AIDS. Just like you don't have to choose between being a hermit and making out with a dozen strangers at a bar. These things called "masks" are there to reduce risk without forcing us to stop living life.

UncleMeat 5y ago

> sit at home 24/7 for the next year, or wear a mask every time I step outside These are extremely extremely extremely different things.

neilv 5y ago

Living in a dense, student-heavy neighborhood of the Boston area, I really hope that this isn't the thinking of many students who just arrived, from all over. The thinking is understandable, but a pandemic like Covid-19 seems like one scenario in which a billion small individual sacrifices together could've (and possibly still can) be a dramatically positive net benefit to the world. One way to think about the significance of minor individual sacrifice like voluntarily masking (where it's not absolutely required by law/rules) is that every infection will tend to spread exponentially. Passing it on to even only one person seems like that would likely result in at least one tragedy for someone else's family. IIUC, masking reduces that significantly, so masking when I believe there's a significant risk of spread seems an easy decision to me.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
My question for you is, what is the end point? I am willing to wear a mask and practice social distancing for a period of time—in the aim of some goal. I'm not willing to do it forever. Which is why I wore a mask until this summer when vaccines were widely available. Give me an end date, and explain why things will be different then, and I'll do it! Honestly! But right now, I'm looking around and I'm not seeing a timeline.
- TillE 5y ago
  It's a pandemic. Why would you expect a firm end date? I know we're living in strange and difficult times, but I feel like a lot of people haven't accepted that just because you're tired of it, doesn't mean the pandemic is over, doesn't mean it's a good idea to stop taking measures to reduce illness and death.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Because we think the powers that be might not ever let it be "over". Remember that after it became apparent that "two weeks" was a lie, the next lie where the goalposts were moved to was "once a vaccine is widely available".