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Vaccinated people also spread covid. The #1 population-level defense against infection disease is self-isolation on symptoms onset. It is possible that vaccinat

Vaccinated people also spread covid. The #1 population-level defense against infection disease is self-isolation on symptoms onset. It is possible that vaccinated people spread covid more aggressively than unvaccinated, because the vaccines dull the symptoms to a point where they don't trigger the 'stay at home' signal anymore.

nobodyandproud 5y ago
That’s like saying sober drivers can cause accidents. It’s the likelihood, and willful the personal choice that leads to a higher of incident which society decides whether or not to tolerate.
- ghoward 5y ago
  We also hold sober drivers accountable when they cause accidents. Why not vaccinated people when they spread the virus?
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    Only when they do something reckless, like look at their cellphones or sleep on rhe wheel. Or speed or blow a red light. Otherwise it’s civil penalties at most
    - ghoward 5y ago
      So staying unvaccinated counts as reckless now?
      - nobodyandproud 5y ago
        Are you saying that it’s a responsible decision, one that won’t have consequences for people who cannot get vaccinated?
        ghoward 5y ago
        I'm saying it could be a responsible decision for the person making the decision. The false premise that we should care about other people's health is annoying at this point. The vaccinated can still spread the virus, so we should make the decision to get vaccinated for ourselves, and those who don't make the orthodox decision should not be vilified.
        nobodyandproud 5y ago
        What makes it a false premise? People are quite tired of the unvaccinated who choose to opt-out without medical or traditional religious reasons; it’s worn thin because the decision affects people who want to get vaccinated but can’t. You don’t have worry about government mandates, though that’s inevitable. The unvaccinated won’t be able to find a job; or even conduct business the way things are going. And soon, you won’t get ICU beds either. These choices have consequences.
        ghoward 5y ago
        It's a false premise because those who would like to get the vaccine, but can't, can voluntarily do things to make sure they don't contract COVID. Instead, they clamor for governments to force people to do something so that they are not inconvenienced. A lot of the consequences of those choices are artificial. They are authoritarian measures designed to elicit compliance, not natural consequences. Also, the very fact that there are people who can't get vaccinated means that the vaccines are dangerous. You have decided that the folks who decide to skip the vaccines are doing so because they don't get it, when in reality, a lot of them probably understand the dangers. While the people who can't get vaccinated would be merely inconvenienced by changing their lives to avoid the virus, those who take the shot could have life-changing consequences. Also, you claim that people like me will not be able to get a job. I laugh at this. There is already a hospital that won't deliver babies because they can't get enough staff after so many quit over a vaccine mandate. If you and the authoritarians push us out of the economy, be prepared for the consequences. The natural consequences. We'll see how long the mandates last.
- angelzen 5y ago
  Those that admit they are drunk and take an Uber instead of driving do not cause accidents. It's the 'Oh, it's just a couple of beers (narrator voice: and two vodka shots, and three martinis.)' that choose to drive while impaired that cause most of the accidents.
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    Yes, because they chose not to drive while drunk. If the uber driver kills someone while driving, that’s not on the person who hailed the uber. Someone who infects another after getting vaccinated falls into the same bucket. They did their due diligence by being responsible. The infector in that case isn’t at fault. In your analogy, the vaccine is the taxi driver.

nobodyandproud 5y ago

That’s like saying sober drivers can cause accidents. It’s the likelihood, and willful the personal choice that leads to a higher of incident which society decides whether or not to tolerate.

ghoward 5y ago
We also hold sober drivers accountable when they cause accidents. Why not vaccinated people when they spread the virus?
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  Only when they do something reckless, like look at their cellphones or sleep on rhe wheel. Or speed or blow a red light. Otherwise it’s civil penalties at most
  - ghoward 5y ago
    So staying unvaccinated counts as reckless now?
    - nobodyandproud 5y ago
      Are you saying that it’s a responsible decision, one that won’t have consequences for people who cannot get vaccinated?
      - ghoward 5y ago
        I'm saying it could be a responsible decision for the person making the decision. The false premise that we should care about other people's health is annoying at this point. The vaccinated can still spread the virus, so we should make the decision to get vaccinated for ourselves, and those who don't make the orthodox decision should not be vilified.
        nobodyandproud 5y ago
        What makes it a false premise? People are quite tired of the unvaccinated who choose to opt-out without medical or traditional religious reasons; it’s worn thin because the decision affects people who want to get vaccinated but can’t. You don’t have worry about government mandates, though that’s inevitable. The unvaccinated won’t be able to find a job; or even conduct business the way things are going. And soon, you won’t get ICU beds either. These choices have consequences.
        ghoward 5y ago
        It's a false premise because those who would like to get the vaccine, but can't, can voluntarily do things to make sure they don't contract COVID. Instead, they clamor for governments to force people to do something so that they are not inconvenienced. A lot of the consequences of those choices are artificial. They are authoritarian measures designed to elicit compliance, not natural consequences. Also, the very fact that there are people who can't get vaccinated means that the vaccines are dangerous. You have decided that the folks who decide to skip the vaccines are doing so because they don't get it, when in reality, a lot of them probably understand the dangers. While the people who can't get vaccinated would be merely inconvenienced by changing their lives to avoid the virus, those who take the shot could have life-changing consequences. Also, you claim that people like me will not be able to get a job. I laugh at this. There is already a hospital that won't deliver babies because they can't get enough staff after so many quit over a vaccine mandate. If you and the authoritarians push us out of the economy, be prepared for the consequences. The natural consequences. We'll see how long the mandates last.
angelzen 5y ago
Those that admit they are drunk and take an Uber instead of driving do not cause accidents. It's the 'Oh, it's just a couple of beers (narrator voice: and two vodka shots, and three martinis.)' that choose to drive while impaired that cause most of the accidents.
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  Yes, because they chose not to drive while drunk. If the uber driver kills someone while driving, that’s not on the person who hailed the uber. Someone who infects another after getting vaccinated falls into the same bucket. They did their due diligence by being responsible. The infector in that case isn’t at fault. In your analogy, the vaccine is the taxi driver.