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Yeah, again this is a great talking point for those who are enjoying their newfound power, but unfortunately for them (and fortunately for the inhabitants of th

Yeah, again this is a great talking point for those who are enjoying their newfound power, but unfortunately for them (and fortunately for the inhabitants of this country!) the numbers do not bare this out: https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/hospitalization-utilization https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/hospitalization-utiliza... Do you know of a hospital system that’s overloaded in the way you are worried about? I’ve seen plenty of bloggers who talk about this, but they never seem to actually link to the data backing up their stories.

sudosysgen 5y ago
What kind of argument is there to cite a single state's COVID ICU utilization as an argument? First of all, that's not total ICU utilization, which is the metric that should interests you. Illinois, the state you cherry-picked, has only 508 ICU beds remaining out of 3127. That's one doubling away from disaster. Here's an example of people dying because they couldn't find an ICU bed : https://meaww.com/ray-demonia-cardiac-failure-dies-icu-beds-full-capacity-no-hospital-covid-547820 https://meaww.com/ray-demonia-cardiac-failure-dies-icu-beds-... Right now the US is at the cusp of disaster with 78% nationwide ICU utilization. As we've seen some states are at functionally 100% utilization and turning away patients.
- thepasswordis 5y ago
  78% ICU utilization is about the base load for ICUs. Hospitals are businesses. They don’t just create tons of empty ICU beds and then never use them. If you are getting your information from for profit blogs and magazines then I’d suggest doing a quick analysis on their motivations. Do you think they have more motivation to get you to click on their products, or more motivation to give you valid (but boring) information? Most of the states (all? I’ve looked at a lot of them) have some for of data dashboard that will give you a better overview of this. I’d highly suggest checking those instead of twitter/blogs/etc. It might not give the data that you are hoping for, but that’s kindof the behavior that is the problem (seeking out blogs and magazines that confirm your priors)
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    I'm really not. 78% utilization is completely unsustainable when 20% of the utilization is from COVID and infection rates can easily double in the span of two weeks. 78% may have been the past utilization, however nowadays use of the ICU removing COVID patients is around 60%. So clearly there has been some level of denial of care. And even then we are close to the breaking point. I think you're not making the point you think you're making with that data. 78% utilization is a lot when a very significant part of that is from an infectious disease known to spiral out of control easily.
- indecisive_user 5y ago
  As the sibling comment pointed out, 78% ICU occupancy is not that high compared to baseline. From a 2014 analysis: >Issues pertaining to the utility, interpretation, and reporting of ICU occupancy measures were identified and there were indications that optimal ICU occupancy rates were around 70-75% https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24373914/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24373914/
ADSSDA 5y ago
Idaho has already implemented crisis standards of care: https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/news/idaho-activates-crisis-standards-care-north-idaho-due-surge-covid-19-patients-requiring https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/news/idaho-activates-cris... And is absolutely overwhelmed. It seems incredibly disingenuous to only consider some random state that's doing well and ignore those doing poorly.
- 13years 5y ago
  Idaho doesn't seem to be in trouble based on the capacity dashboard. https://rationalground.com/hospital-and-icu-capacity-dashboards/ https://rationalground.com/hospital-and-icu-capacity-dashboa... Also, if you go back in look for headlines of hospitals being overwhelmed, you will see they exist for the flu for almost every year as well. https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/01/24/Hospitals-overwhelmed-by-influx-of-flu-patients/8171516800130/ https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/01/24/Hospitals-overwhe...
  - ADSSDA 5y ago
    You should use the actual state's dashboard: https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/idaho.division.of.public.health/viz/DPHIdahoCOVID-19Dashboard/Home https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/idaho.division.of.pub... And Idaho is absolutely overwhelmed. In past flu seasons they have not moved to crisis standards of care, I don't even see Idaho in the article you linked so I'm not sure what relevance it has here. Are you claiming the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare is unaware of their own ICU utilization status?
    - 13years 5y ago
      Those numbers seem to match the numbers from the site I posted. The rational ground site also shows the numbers in relation to capacity. You can filter by state. Based on the numbers and your original post, it doesn't seem to be a statewide issue. It is a localized issue of what seems an area covered by 10 hospitals. The relevance is that hospitals having issues with capacity is not beyond the realm of normal.
charrondev 5y ago
Alberta, Canada right now is getting its medical system put through the ringer. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-alberta-health-authority-cancels-all-elective-surgeries-in-calgary/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-alber... During Canadas third wave hospitals were overwhelmed the point that people were dying while waiting for care. In this case 6 patients died while waiting for cardiac surgery because the ICUs were overwhelmed dealing with Covid patients. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/covid-19-stay-home-order-non-essential-businesses-manitoba-1.6038915 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/covid-19-stay-home-o...

sudosysgen 5y ago

What kind of argument is there to cite a single state's COVID ICU utilization as an argument? First of all, that's not total ICU utilization, which is the metric that should interests you. Illinois, the state you cherry-picked, has only 508 ICU beds remaining out of 3127. That's one doubling away from disaster. Here's an example of people dying because they couldn't find an ICU bed : https://meaww.com/ray-demonia-cardiac-failure-dies-icu-beds-full-capacity-no-hospital-covid-547820 https://meaww.com/ray-demonia-cardiac-failure-dies-icu-beds-... Right now the US is at the cusp of disaster with 78% nationwide ICU utilization. As we've seen some states are at functionally 100% utilization and turning away patients.

thepasswordis 5y ago
78% ICU utilization is about the base load for ICUs. Hospitals are businesses. They don’t just create tons of empty ICU beds and then never use them. If you are getting your information from for profit blogs and magazines then I’d suggest doing a quick analysis on their motivations. Do you think they have more motivation to get you to click on their products, or more motivation to give you valid (but boring) information? Most of the states (all? I’ve looked at a lot of them) have some for of data dashboard that will give you a better overview of this. I’d highly suggest checking those instead of twitter/blogs/etc. It might not give the data that you are hoping for, but that’s kindof the behavior that is the problem (seeking out blogs and magazines that confirm your priors)
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I'm really not. 78% utilization is completely unsustainable when 20% of the utilization is from COVID and infection rates can easily double in the span of two weeks. 78% may have been the past utilization, however nowadays use of the ICU removing COVID patients is around 60%. So clearly there has been some level of denial of care. And even then we are close to the breaking point. I think you're not making the point you think you're making with that data. 78% utilization is a lot when a very significant part of that is from an infectious disease known to spiral out of control easily.
indecisive_user 5y ago
As the sibling comment pointed out, 78% ICU occupancy is not that high compared to baseline. From a 2014 analysis: >Issues pertaining to the utility, interpretation, and reporting of ICU occupancy measures were identified and there were indications that optimal ICU occupancy rates were around 70-75% https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24373914/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24373914/

ADSSDA 5y ago

Idaho has already implemented crisis standards of care: https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/news/idaho-activates-crisis-standards-care-north-idaho-due-surge-covid-19-patients-requiring https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/news/idaho-activates-cris... And is absolutely overwhelmed. It seems incredibly disingenuous to only consider some random state that's doing well and ignore those doing poorly.

13years 5y ago
Idaho doesn't seem to be in trouble based on the capacity dashboard. https://rationalground.com/hospital-and-icu-capacity-dashboards/ https://rationalground.com/hospital-and-icu-capacity-dashboa... Also, if you go back in look for headlines of hospitals being overwhelmed, you will see they exist for the flu for almost every year as well. https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/01/24/Hospitals-overwhelmed-by-influx-of-flu-patients/8171516800130/ https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/01/24/Hospitals-overwhe...
- ADSSDA 5y ago
  You should use the actual state's dashboard: https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/idaho.division.of.public.health/viz/DPHIdahoCOVID-19Dashboard/Home https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/idaho.division.of.pub... And Idaho is absolutely overwhelmed. In past flu seasons they have not moved to crisis standards of care, I don't even see Idaho in the article you linked so I'm not sure what relevance it has here. Are you claiming the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare is unaware of their own ICU utilization status?
  - 13years 5y ago
    Those numbers seem to match the numbers from the site I posted. The rational ground site also shows the numbers in relation to capacity. You can filter by state. Based on the numbers and your original post, it doesn't seem to be a statewide issue. It is a localized issue of what seems an area covered by 10 hospitals. The relevance is that hospitals having issues with capacity is not beyond the realm of normal.

charrondev 5y ago

Alberta, Canada right now is getting its medical system put through the ringer. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-alberta-health-authority-cancels-all-elective-surgeries-in-calgary/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-alber... During Canadas third wave hospitals were overwhelmed the point that people were dying while waiting for care. In this case 6 patients died while waiting for cardiac surgery because the ICUs were overwhelmed dealing with Covid patients. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/covid-19-stay-home-order-non-essential-businesses-manitoba-1.6038915 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/covid-19-stay-home-o...