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whats the solution for millions of renters that dont have access to ev stations at home though? even if the charging station is a mile away would you expect som

by fibers 5y ago

whats the solution for millions of renters that dont have access to ev stations at home though? even if the charging station is a mile away would you expect someone to walk 1 mile every charge cycle?

clouddrover 5y ago
The solution is more slow and fast chargers everywhere. I think these ones are clever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjiR-Wz_Z8s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjiR-Wz_Z8s And roadside wireless charging will be an interesting option in the future: https://witricity.com/ https://witricity.com/
toomuchtodo 5y ago
What Tesla does: Co-locate fast DC chargers at grocery stores (Meijer, Kroger, some Targets, etc). You charge when you go grocery shopping, and the shopping trip typically takes longer than the charge (in my experience). This is a stop gap until legislation requires EV charging be provided at apartments and workplaces (similar to handicap parking mandates).
- kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
  My question is whether or not Tesla chargers can work with other EV cars. If not, then isn't it that all of Tesla's efforts are just helping their own brand instead of helping the EV push as a whole?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Reason077 5y ago
    Tesla’s Superchargers are currently exclusive to Tesla vehicles. But that’s changing soon, apparently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27905595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27905595
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    Superchargers only currently work with Tesla’s due to technical constraints (although Tesla is changing that now that there are significant numbers of non-Tesla EVs with a big enough battery and 100kW charging ability). However Tesla destination chargers which are lower speed and three have been available for both Tesla cars and non-Tesla EVs.
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    In the US the Tesla plug is their own invention. In Europe they've moved on to CCS. In theory it should be possible to open up Superchargers to other brands, but it's more of a marketing/business issue than any technical problem. I really don't see Volkswagen/Audi/BMW making a deal with Tesla to integrate their systems with the Tesla backend. Would you want your customers to use a competitors tools? =)
ju-st 5y ago
I think the solution is to charge when shopping. Fast charging once per week for 30-45mins while you are in a supermarket is convenient and is probably adding enough range for the whole week.
dagw 5y ago
Charging stations at more and more public parking is coming. If you drive to work you'll almost certainly be able to charge there. Every time you go to the mall or food store, you'll be able to charge for an hour. Basically in few years half the 'public' parking spaces you leave your car at will have charging opportunities meaning the only time you'll need to seek out charging is during longer road trips (just like people who can charge at home)
dahfizz 5y ago
There are workarounds mentioned by sibling comments but the fact is that EVs are, and will continue to be, very inconvenient for those who don't own a home.
- ajross 5y ago
  I think "very inconvenient" is stretching it. The pessimal case is that you are 100% reliant on fast charging and have to spend 20 minutes once a week at your local shopping mall or wherever your convenient fast charger is. That may not correlate well with the shopping you want to do, but it's hardly a disaster. In practice it's only a little worse than gassing up, and it smells better.
Reason077 5y ago
> ”whats the solution for millions of renters that dont have access to ev stations at home though?” The solution is to get chargers installed wherever you park the car. May require legislation if your landlord is uncooperative. In the mean time, charging at a public charging station isn’t so bad provided it’s convenient and reliable. If you can combine charging with shopping or dining etc it’s not much different to topping up at a gas station. Probably cheaper too!
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  Especially for a long range teslas. 300-400 mile range plus 250kW charging is pretty close to the gas vehicle experience. It’s doable to do exclusively supercharging, although you’re missing out on some of the biggest benefits of EVs.
- Turing_Machine 5y ago
  Here in Alaska, people commonly plug in their normal cars in the winter so they will start after a cold night (these are heating units that are spliced into the engine's hoses to circulate and warm the engine coolant). Just about every private parking spot has an electrical outlet for each parking space, even at quite downscale apartment buildings. It's usually controlled by a switch inside the unit. You can flip it on when you wake up so the car is warmed up enough to start by the time you leave for work. I remember many years ago that having one of these outlets was a bullet point for apartment listings, but nowadays it's just expected. So the market worked in that case. EV charging stations are going to be more expensive than a basic 20 amp outlet (a quick web search indicates $700 to $2,000, not including installation), but not all that expensive, compared to the other capital expenses involved in being a landlord.
  - Reason077 5y ago
    Even $700 seems expensive for a basic wall charger. I see them as low as £225 (USD $310) here in the UK[1], so expect them to get cheaper as the market develops. Of course, the real cost is in the installation and wiring. [1] https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/home-charging-range/products/qubev-ev-charging-unit-type-2-socket-32-amp-7-2-kw-ip65 https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/home-charging-range/prod...
Pasorrijer 5y ago
One thing I noticed in Norway too was on street parking meters that also had electric charging cables. Tap your card, pay for parking and the minor electricity cost just gets added to the parking charge.
theshrike79 5y ago
If you have a place to park your car (not roadside parking), it's perfectly possible to install an AC charger in there. A 3.7kW one will be more than enough for people working 9-5. The car will be sitting there doing nothing for 10+ hours anyway, why not charge at the same time. Nothing will change without legislation though. In Finland we changed the law so that if an apartment building has "major renovations", they MUST install EV charging capability for all parking spots. (No need to install a charger, it just needs to be possible).

by fibers 5y ago

whats the solution for millions of renters that dont have access to ev stations at home though? even if the charging station is a mile away would you expect someone to walk 1 mile every charge cycle?

clouddrover 5y ago

The solution is more slow and fast chargers everywhere. I think these ones are clever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjiR-Wz_Z8s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjiR-Wz_Z8s And roadside wireless charging will be an interesting option in the future: https://witricity.com/ https://witricity.com/

toomuchtodo 5y ago

What Tesla does: Co-locate fast DC chargers at grocery stores (Meijer, Kroger, some Targets, etc). You charge when you go grocery shopping, and the shopping trip typically takes longer than the charge (in my experience). This is a stop gap until legislation requires EV charging be provided at apartments and workplaces (similar to handicap parking mandates).

kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
My question is whether or not Tesla chargers can work with other EV cars. If not, then isn't it that all of Tesla's efforts are just helping their own brand instead of helping the EV push as a whole?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Reason077 5y ago
  Tesla’s Superchargers are currently exclusive to Tesla vehicles. But that’s changing soon, apparently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27905595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27905595
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  Superchargers only currently work with Tesla’s due to technical constraints (although Tesla is changing that now that there are significant numbers of non-Tesla EVs with a big enough battery and 100kW charging ability). However Tesla destination chargers which are lower speed and three have been available for both Tesla cars and non-Tesla EVs.
- theshrike79 5y ago
  In the US the Tesla plug is their own invention. In Europe they've moved on to CCS. In theory it should be possible to open up Superchargers to other brands, but it's more of a marketing/business issue than any technical problem. I really don't see Volkswagen/Audi/BMW making a deal with Tesla to integrate their systems with the Tesla backend. Would you want your customers to use a competitors tools? =)

ju-st 5y ago

I think the solution is to charge when shopping. Fast charging once per week for 30-45mins while you are in a supermarket is convenient and is probably adding enough range for the whole week.

dagw 5y ago

Charging stations at more and more public parking is coming. If you drive to work you'll almost certainly be able to charge there. Every time you go to the mall or food store, you'll be able to charge for an hour. Basically in few years half the 'public' parking spaces you leave your car at will have charging opportunities meaning the only time you'll need to seek out charging is during longer road trips (just like people who can charge at home)

dahfizz 5y ago

There are workarounds mentioned by sibling comments but the fact is that EVs are, and will continue to be, very inconvenient for those who don't own a home.

ajross 5y ago
I think "very inconvenient" is stretching it. The pessimal case is that you are 100% reliant on fast charging and have to spend 20 minutes once a week at your local shopping mall or wherever your convenient fast charger is. That may not correlate well with the shopping you want to do, but it's hardly a disaster. In practice it's only a little worse than gassing up, and it smells better.

Reason077 5y ago

> ”whats the solution for millions of renters that dont have access to ev stations at home though?” The solution is to get chargers installed wherever you park the car. May require legislation if your landlord is uncooperative. In the mean time, charging at a public charging station isn’t so bad provided it’s convenient and reliable. If you can combine charging with shopping or dining etc it’s not much different to topping up at a gas station. Probably cheaper too!

Robotbeat 5y ago
Especially for a long range teslas. 300-400 mile range plus 250kW charging is pretty close to the gas vehicle experience. It’s doable to do exclusively supercharging, although you’re missing out on some of the biggest benefits of EVs.
Turing_Machine 5y ago
Here in Alaska, people commonly plug in their normal cars in the winter so they will start after a cold night (these are heating units that are spliced into the engine's hoses to circulate and warm the engine coolant). Just about every private parking spot has an electrical outlet for each parking space, even at quite downscale apartment buildings. It's usually controlled by a switch inside the unit. You can flip it on when you wake up so the car is warmed up enough to start by the time you leave for work. I remember many years ago that having one of these outlets was a bullet point for apartment listings, but nowadays it's just expected. So the market worked in that case. EV charging stations are going to be more expensive than a basic 20 amp outlet (a quick web search indicates $700 to $2,000, not including installation), but not all that expensive, compared to the other capital expenses involved in being a landlord.
- Reason077 5y ago
  Even $700 seems expensive for a basic wall charger. I see them as low as £225 (USD $310) here in the UK[1], so expect them to get cheaper as the market develops. Of course, the real cost is in the installation and wiring. [1] https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/home-charging-range/products/qubev-ev-charging-unit-type-2-socket-32-amp-7-2-kw-ip65 https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/home-charging-range/prod...

Pasorrijer 5y ago

One thing I noticed in Norway too was on street parking meters that also had electric charging cables. Tap your card, pay for parking and the minor electricity cost just gets added to the parking charge.

theshrike79 5y ago

If you have a place to park your car (not roadside parking), it's perfectly possible to install an AC charger in there. A 3.7kW one will be more than enough for people working 9-5. The car will be sitting there doing nothing for 10+ hours anyway, why not charge at the same time. Nothing will change without legislation though. In Finland we changed the law so that if an apartment building has "major renovations", they MUST install EV charging capability for all parking spots. (No need to install a charger, it just needs to be possible).