4 ms·

I speak from total ignorance; I've just read a few of these stories, so take my comments in that context, please. It seems to me that these "locate your device

by mwexler 15y ago

I speak from total ignorance; I've just read a few of these stories, so take my comments in that context, please. It seems to me that these "locate your device" companies would all do themselves a world of good if they found a way to work with local police departments to allow verification of theft and get past the "we can't help you, no proof of a crime or evidence" walls. If average person calls the police to report the crime, they get rebuffed (and we've seen this multiple times with stories here on HN; they all start by "the cops ignored me, so I tweeted or posted for help"). If there were a verification process where you report the device missing with a possible location, and the cops can easily verify that you do own the device, it has been reported stolen, and the location is in their jurisdiction, it would seem like an easy win for a nearby car to visit location, question suspect, and arrest if necessary, adding a solved crime to their credit. Otherwise, we continue to rely on friends and forum-mates to stalk a thief until we can convice someone, anyone in authority, to help out. This seems dangerous and only works for those with reasonably large, friendly, and distributed followers/social networks I look forward to one of these location companies actually hiring an ex-cop as a "liason" and working out processes to get law enforcement engaged quickly to grab a suspect when much of the work (evidence of theft, location of stolen property, evidence of locations) has already been done. Again, I am not a lawyer, and don't know much about this stuff, just what I've read online, so feel free to correct me if this is really impossible in the US.

arthurgibson 15y ago
No rudeness intended, but "Possession is nine-tenths of the law". I don't think police officers stalking a cabby for a phone you left in a cab is worth it to the general public.
- mwexler 15y ago
  You raise 3 points: 1) I would think that a cabby keeping a phone that they did not purchase or have reason to believe was unintentionally left in their vehicle, and trying to convert it for their own use or selling it, is called theft, not possession. And I am not a lawyer, but I think theft overrules the "9/10ths" guideline, which would appear to be in cases where there is equal or no claim to the property. So I don't think that applies. Now, a different question is: 2) is the size of the theft of import in deciding whether or not it should be handled by the police? Well, if the property is of minimal value (they stole my pencil!), I guess not... but a phone valued at $300 is probably something they should follow up on. That being said, I suspect there are actual guidelines that police follow in these cases, and I don't know them. Finally, 3) should the police officers "stalk" the cabbie? No, not unless they are investigating or have probable cause for an arrest. But once the potential thief is located, stationary, and in their jurisdiction/locale, is there not a reason for police to intervene if the effort on their part is relatively small? Yes, there's a cost to everything, but the GPS tool would have done a ton to reduce the work/cost in this case. Again, IANAL, etc.
  - jackpirate 15y ago
    How on earth could the cabbie return it to you? If you left a $100 bill, it's his. No matter how saintly his desire to give it back, there is no way for him to do so, so he may as well spend it. [Edit: My point is that while I can track the device, the cabbie has no way of tracking me. How could he return the phone to me in this situation?]
    - mwexler 15y ago
      Umm... this whole conversation is about GPS tracked devices, almost all of which have strongly linked identifiers. If it's money, then it is a lot harder... not that we were even talking about that, but true statement. A harder question becomes: I just bought the phone, and I left it in the cab. I can't track it's location, but I kept the cabbie ID number. How can I prove the boxed phone is mine? It's not activated, and the store didn't write down the serial number. At that point, like the previous poster said, it's probably "posession rules, losers drool" and I would lose my phone. Also not entirely germane to the conversation, but interesting thought.
    - untog 15y ago
      Uh, phone the entry in your phonebook called 'Me', or 'Home'? Answer the phone when someone calls?
    - uxp 15y ago
      Most, if not all, cab drivers cannot take possession of items left in the cab. New York, for example, says: §54-18(a) Inspection Following Trips from Airports. Immediately after completing a trip to Kennedy, La Guardia or Newark Airports, the Driver must inspect the interior of the Taxicab and the trunk compartment, if used, to ensure that Passengers have collected their property. §54-18(b) Handling of Lost Property. Property found by a Driver in a Taxicab must be returned to the Passenger if possible; otherwise, it must be taken without delay to the police precinct closest to where the Passenger was discharged. §54-18(c) Notifying Commission Regarding Lost Property. If the property is not returned to the Passenger, the Driver must promptly inform the Commission of the details regarding the found property and the police precinct where it is held. Note that 54-18(b) is not inclusive of (a), but only when transporting passengers to the listed airports is an inspection of the passenger area for lost or misplaced items required. If any items are found outside of those conditions, they still must be taken to the closest precinct, and the Taxi commission must be notified of the property and to which precinct it is located. It is not the responsibility of the cab driver to track you down, outside of yelling at you while you are walking away from the cab. After that, it is your responsibility as a passenger with a lost item to track it down.
- gcb 15y ago
  i rather have my phone, with enough info for identity theft, returned to me then the cops busting some file sharer or stoner.

by mwexler 15y ago

arthurgibson 15y ago

No rudeness intended, but "Possession is nine-tenths of the law". I don't think police officers stalking a cabby for a phone you left in a cab is worth it to the general public.

mwexler 15y ago
You raise 3 points: 1) I would think that a cabby keeping a phone that they did not purchase or have reason to believe was unintentionally left in their vehicle, and trying to convert it for their own use or selling it, is called theft, not possession. And I am not a lawyer, but I think theft overrules the "9/10ths" guideline, which would appear to be in cases where there is equal or no claim to the property. So I don't think that applies. Now, a different question is: 2) is the size of the theft of import in deciding whether or not it should be handled by the police? Well, if the property is of minimal value (they stole my pencil!), I guess not... but a phone valued at $300 is probably something they should follow up on. That being said, I suspect there are actual guidelines that police follow in these cases, and I don't know them. Finally, 3) should the police officers "stalk" the cabbie? No, not unless they are investigating or have probable cause for an arrest. But once the potential thief is located, stationary, and in their jurisdiction/locale, is there not a reason for police to intervene if the effort on their part is relatively small? Yes, there's a cost to everything, but the GPS tool would have done a ton to reduce the work/cost in this case. Again, IANAL, etc.
- jackpirate 15y ago
  How on earth could the cabbie return it to you? If you left a $100 bill, it's his. No matter how saintly his desire to give it back, there is no way for him to do so, so he may as well spend it. [Edit: My point is that while I can track the device, the cabbie has no way of tracking me. How could he return the phone to me in this situation?]
  - mwexler 15y ago
    Umm... this whole conversation is about GPS tracked devices, almost all of which have strongly linked identifiers. If it's money, then it is a lot harder... not that we were even talking about that, but true statement. A harder question becomes: I just bought the phone, and I left it in the cab. I can't track it's location, but I kept the cabbie ID number. How can I prove the boxed phone is mine? It's not activated, and the store didn't write down the serial number. At that point, like the previous poster said, it's probably "posession rules, losers drool" and I would lose my phone. Also not entirely germane to the conversation, but interesting thought.
  - untog 15y ago
    Uh, phone the entry in your phonebook called 'Me', or 'Home'? Answer the phone when someone calls?
  - uxp 15y ago
    Most, if not all, cab drivers cannot take possession of items left in the cab. New York, for example, says: §54-18(a) Inspection Following Trips from Airports. Immediately after completing a trip to Kennedy, La Guardia or Newark Airports, the Driver must inspect the interior of the Taxicab and the trunk compartment, if used, to ensure that Passengers have collected their property. §54-18(b) Handling of Lost Property. Property found by a Driver in a Taxicab must be returned to the Passenger if possible; otherwise, it must be taken without delay to the police precinct closest to where the Passenger was discharged. §54-18(c) Notifying Commission Regarding Lost Property. If the property is not returned to the Passenger, the Driver must promptly inform the Commission of the details regarding the found property and the police precinct where it is held. Note that 54-18(b) is not inclusive of (a), but only when transporting passengers to the listed airports is an inspection of the passenger area for lost or misplaced items required. If any items are found outside of those conditions, they still must be taken to the closest precinct, and the Taxi commission must be notified of the property and to which precinct it is located. It is not the responsibility of the cab driver to track you down, outside of yelling at you while you are walking away from the cab. After that, it is your responsibility as a passenger with a lost item to track it down.
gcb 15y ago
i rather have my phone, with enough info for identity theft, returned to me then the cops busting some file sharer or stoner.