6 ms·

Well, if the large majority of your population is already vaccinated, I guess these passports could potentially be dismissed, if masks are still mandatory, but

Well, if the large majority of your population is already vaccinated, I guess these passports could potentially be dismissed, if masks are still mandatory, but for some countries - like Portugal where we have +80% of the pop. vaccinated - the main concern are tourists that completely disregard any etiquette or measures in place. So I think keeping passports is a good measure, not perfect due to breakthrough infections, still better than nothing.

ddxxdd 5y ago
Last time I checked, the top 3 countries in terms of vaccination rates are also the top 3 countries in terms of number of active covid cases. Israel is #1 in vaccination rates and #1 in daily cases.
- martin8412 5y ago
  That must have been a while ago, because Israel is nowhere near top in vaccination rate anymore. They had a fast rollout, but are now stuck at around 61%.. Meanwhile, western Europe is around 80-90% vaccinated
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=FRA https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=FRA shows more like 60%-70% for the total population (I turned on more countries than France). Are your numbers percent of adults or including people that have recovered from infection or something?
    - jvzr 5y ago
      Government numbers in France show 80.2% today ("The figure gives the share of the population over the age of 12 that are fully vaccinated (all required doses") We crossed 60% on July 29, and 70% on August 20
      - maxerickson 5y ago
        Yeah, "over the age of 12", that isn't 80% fully vaccinated, it's 80% of over 12s fully vaccinated. Which is a useful measure of administrative effectiveness when the vaccine is not being given to people under 12, but it isn't 80% of the total population.
  - 0-_-0 5y ago
    Europe: 102.58 doses per 100 Israel: 163.74 doses per 100 (#5 in the world) Source: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?tab=table&zoomToSelection=true&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=new_deaths_per_million&Metric=Vaccine+doses&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=IND~USA~GBR~CAN~DEU~FRA https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...
    - isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
      Doses don't mean much if a large portion of the population have taken none.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - libertine 5y ago
        Not to mention Janssen vaccine is a single dose and it's being widely used in some EU countries, which renders that measurement even more "useless" (in the sense that it doesn't give an accurate picture of the reality of the vaccination programs)
- libertine 5y ago
  I don't know where you getting that information, last time I checked Israel wasn't even in the top10 countries. Last week Portugal was number 2, and our cases have been dropping (which is a good sign for winter, though it's still early), also deaths and hospitalizations are nowhere near pre-vaccine numbers. We even had breakthrough cases in homes and care centers for the elderly, the majority seem to be mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic, very few deaths.
  - 0-_-0 5y ago
    According to https://ourworldindata.org/ https://ourworldindata.org/ Israel is #4 in COVID cases right now (856.81/M) and #5 in vaccine doses per 100 people (163.74)
    - libertine 5y ago
      Well maybe vaccine doses per 100 people isn't the best benchmark, especially if they are already giving 3rd doses - it's way more important the share of full vaccination of the total population, because the goal is to get the imune system primed. The reality is that Israel only has 63% of their population fully vaccinated, even if they keep giving extra doses, a large slice is still not vaccinated (people under 59 apparently).
      - kuraudo 5y ago
        Highly suspect: I heard that they count anyone without three jabs as "unvaccinated." that might not be israel and it might be two jabs, apologies on unreliability. I'm putting this out here because I hope someone can disprove or verify it.
  - belter 5y ago
    Cases in Portugal are staying stable neither growing or diminishing. Looking at the curve for deaths there seems to be no correlation between deaths and the vaccination program. https://expresso.pt/coronavirus/2021-09-10-Covid-19.-O-oitavo-dia-consecutivo-abaixo-dos-2000-casos-o-surto-em-Portugal-em-graficos-e-mapas-5edb91c5 https://expresso.pt/coronavirus/2021-09-10-Covid-19.-O-oitav...
Loveaway 5y ago
No it's shit. Just let people decide if they want to get the vaccination or not, and go on with life as normal. By now everyone can get it and be protected against the virus. You now have the immunity, so act like it! Stop dragging this out with requiring passports, masks, and whatnot. The "main concern" aren't tourists - tourists are the lifeblood of many places, and they should be welcomed. They come to you to see your culture, and you encumber them with your own burden and fears.
- libertine 5y ago
  >Just let people decide if they want to get the vaccination or not, and go on with life as normal. Uh, where did I say that people shouldn't decide? Do you think we got +80% (87% if you factor in single doses), at gun point? If these passports had an influence on 5 percentual points I was being extremely generous. It's all about education, being informed, and a sense of duty. Probably the majority where fearful and anxious to do it, but they did it anyway. > tourists are the lifeblood of many places, and they should be welcomed. Being welcoming doesn't mean put up with shit, right? Wear a mask and have the vaccine passport at hand, not that hard now is it? One is a tiny piece of cloth, the other is a tiny piece of digital paper.
  - Loveaway 5y ago
    No the tourists have to put up with YOUR shit. You are immune for fucks sake, how hard is it to actually be welcoming and say: It's ok for unvaccinated to enter a restaurant. We can live without implicitly checking everyone. We don't need to be like that and can act like normal decent humans again! Is that so hard?
    - libertine 5y ago
      >No the tourists have to put up with YOUR shit. If by shit you mean the law, yes. That's what you have to do when you visit another country - even though a lot of people don't act like it truth be told. Psst, come here, I'll drop you a quick tip: if they don't want to abide by the laws and mandates... don't come? I don't get why you're ok to enforce your choice onto others, yet others can't enforce their choices onto you just because you're a tourist and we should welcome you. >You are immune for fucks sake, how hard is it to actually be welcoming and say: It's ok for unvaccinated to enter a restaurant. Uh, I don't think you can even enter the country without vaccine passport or valid PCR negative test. So you have that for starters, and if you choose to not be vaccinated what's the problem of taking another PCR test to go to restaurants? >We can live without implicitly checking everyone. We don't need to be like that and can act like normal decent humans again! Is that so hard? You just need to realize this is temporary, and the faster we go through this, the better - that was the whole game plan. Some people are opting to get infected without vaccines, that'll just delay things, but the end will come eventually. Also we check people on regular basis: drivers licenses, IDs, tickets, etc. Human decency is alive and well, and the fact that 87% of a country population, so far, adhered to a cause to protect themselves and the next person is the proof of that.
commandlinefan 5y ago
> if masks are still mandatory Cloth masks provide no protection against viruses. If you don’t believe me, just read the warnings on the box itself.
- jlokier 5y ago
  If it's a good quality mask, that would be misunderstanding the words on the box. Masks provide some protection against the spreading of liquid droplets, as it says on the box. (Quality of mask varies a lot, though.) In the case of Covid-19, droplets are believed to be the primary way it is suspended in air and breathed in by the next person. Although that type of mask doesn't protect against pure airborne virus transmission without droplets, that is more applicable to other viruses than Covid-19. The key difference: "Airborne virus" means virus without droplets (or such tiny ones that it's not what we mean by droplets); it does not mean the same thing as virus carried by small liquid droplets of the size normally breathed out by humans, and attenuated by cloth masks. Maybe some Covid-19 is transported without droplets, but quantity of exposure matters, and suppressing droplet transmission, as done by good cloth masks, still has a significant effect. There are better, more thorough mask types available, of course.

ddxxdd 5y ago

Last time I checked, the top 3 countries in terms of vaccination rates are also the top 3 countries in terms of number of active covid cases. Israel is #1 in vaccination rates and #1 in daily cases.

martin8412 5y ago
That must have been a while ago, because Israel is nowhere near top in vaccination rate anymore. They had a fast rollout, but are now stuck at around 61%.. Meanwhile, western Europe is around 80-90% vaccinated
- maxerickson 5y ago
  https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=FRA https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=FRA shows more like 60%-70% for the total population (I turned on more countries than France). Are your numbers percent of adults or including people that have recovered from infection or something?
  - jvzr 5y ago
    Government numbers in France show 80.2% today ("The figure gives the share of the population over the age of 12 that are fully vaccinated (all required doses") We crossed 60% on July 29, and 70% on August 20
    - maxerickson 5y ago
      Yeah, "over the age of 12", that isn't 80% fully vaccinated, it's 80% of over 12s fully vaccinated. Which is a useful measure of administrative effectiveness when the vaccine is not being given to people under 12, but it isn't 80% of the total population.
- 0-_-0 5y ago
  Europe: 102.58 doses per 100 Israel: 163.74 doses per 100 (#5 in the world) Source: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?tab=table&zoomToSelection=true&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=new_deaths_per_million&Metric=Vaccine+doses&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=IND~USA~GBR~CAN~DEU~FRA https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...
  - isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
    Doses don't mean much if a large portion of the population have taken none.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - libertine 5y ago
      Not to mention Janssen vaccine is a single dose and it's being widely used in some EU countries, which renders that measurement even more "useless" (in the sense that it doesn't give an accurate picture of the reality of the vaccination programs)
libertine 5y ago
I don't know where you getting that information, last time I checked Israel wasn't even in the top10 countries. Last week Portugal was number 2, and our cases have been dropping (which is a good sign for winter, though it's still early), also deaths and hospitalizations are nowhere near pre-vaccine numbers. We even had breakthrough cases in homes and care centers for the elderly, the majority seem to be mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic, very few deaths.
- 0-_-0 5y ago
  According to https://ourworldindata.org/ https://ourworldindata.org/ Israel is #4 in COVID cases right now (856.81/M) and #5 in vaccine doses per 100 people (163.74)
  - libertine 5y ago
    Well maybe vaccine doses per 100 people isn't the best benchmark, especially if they are already giving 3rd doses - it's way more important the share of full vaccination of the total population, because the goal is to get the imune system primed. The reality is that Israel only has 63% of their population fully vaccinated, even if they keep giving extra doses, a large slice is still not vaccinated (people under 59 apparently).
    - kuraudo 5y ago
      Highly suspect: I heard that they count anyone without three jabs as "unvaccinated." that might not be israel and it might be two jabs, apologies on unreliability. I'm putting this out here because I hope someone can disprove or verify it.
- belter 5y ago
  Cases in Portugal are staying stable neither growing or diminishing. Looking at the curve for deaths there seems to be no correlation between deaths and the vaccination program. https://expresso.pt/coronavirus/2021-09-10-Covid-19.-O-oitavo-dia-consecutivo-abaixo-dos-2000-casos-o-surto-em-Portugal-em-graficos-e-mapas-5edb91c5 https://expresso.pt/coronavirus/2021-09-10-Covid-19.-O-oitav...

Loveaway 5y ago

No it's shit. Just let people decide if they want to get the vaccination or not, and go on with life as normal. By now everyone can get it and be protected against the virus. You now have the immunity, so act like it! Stop dragging this out with requiring passports, masks, and whatnot. The "main concern" aren't tourists - tourists are the lifeblood of many places, and they should be welcomed. They come to you to see your culture, and you encumber them with your own burden and fears.

libertine 5y ago
>Just let people decide if they want to get the vaccination or not, and go on with life as normal. Uh, where did I say that people shouldn't decide? Do you think we got +80% (87% if you factor in single doses), at gun point? If these passports had an influence on 5 percentual points I was being extremely generous. It's all about education, being informed, and a sense of duty. Probably the majority where fearful and anxious to do it, but they did it anyway. > tourists are the lifeblood of many places, and they should be welcomed. Being welcoming doesn't mean put up with shit, right? Wear a mask and have the vaccine passport at hand, not that hard now is it? One is a tiny piece of cloth, the other is a tiny piece of digital paper.
- Loveaway 5y ago
  No the tourists have to put up with YOUR shit. You are immune for fucks sake, how hard is it to actually be welcoming and say: It's ok for unvaccinated to enter a restaurant. We can live without implicitly checking everyone. We don't need to be like that and can act like normal decent humans again! Is that so hard?
  - libertine 5y ago
    >No the tourists have to put up with YOUR shit. If by shit you mean the law, yes. That's what you have to do when you visit another country - even though a lot of people don't act like it truth be told. Psst, come here, I'll drop you a quick tip: if they don't want to abide by the laws and mandates... don't come? I don't get why you're ok to enforce your choice onto others, yet others can't enforce their choices onto you just because you're a tourist and we should welcome you. >You are immune for fucks sake, how hard is it to actually be welcoming and say: It's ok for unvaccinated to enter a restaurant. Uh, I don't think you can even enter the country without vaccine passport or valid PCR negative test. So you have that for starters, and if you choose to not be vaccinated what's the problem of taking another PCR test to go to restaurants? >We can live without implicitly checking everyone. We don't need to be like that and can act like normal decent humans again! Is that so hard? You just need to realize this is temporary, and the faster we go through this, the better - that was the whole game plan. Some people are opting to get infected without vaccines, that'll just delay things, but the end will come eventually. Also we check people on regular basis: drivers licenses, IDs, tickets, etc. Human decency is alive and well, and the fact that 87% of a country population, so far, adhered to a cause to protect themselves and the next person is the proof of that.

commandlinefan 5y ago

> if masks are still mandatory Cloth masks provide no protection against viruses. If you don’t believe me, just read the warnings on the box itself.

jlokier 5y ago
If it's a good quality mask, that would be misunderstanding the words on the box. Masks provide some protection against the spreading of liquid droplets, as it says on the box. (Quality of mask varies a lot, though.) In the case of Covid-19, droplets are believed to be the primary way it is suspended in air and breathed in by the next person. Although that type of mask doesn't protect against pure airborne virus transmission without droplets, that is more applicable to other viruses than Covid-19. The key difference: "Airborne virus" means virus without droplets (or such tiny ones that it's not what we mean by droplets); it does not mean the same thing as virus carried by small liquid droplets of the size normally breathed out by humans, and attenuated by cloth masks. Maybe some Covid-19 is transported without droplets, but quantity of exposure matters, and suppressing droplet transmission, as done by good cloth masks, still has a significant effect. There are better, more thorough mask types available, of course.