4 ms·

The lies and conspiracy theories were always there. The difference now is that there are lies and conspiracies in different directions rather than a consensus o

The lies and conspiracy theories were always there. The difference now is that there are lies and conspiracies in different directions rather than a consensus of lies and conspiracy theories. Of course it remains to be seen if it's possible to create a consensus of a nation without centralized media like we had until now. If it's not, we will have to get used to the population fragmenting into different groups with different chains of trust, or we will have to accept the government imposing totalitarian measures on the internet to reestablish a centralized consensus. I guess each option has issues.

joelbluminator 5y ago
> we will have to get used to the population fragmenting into different groups with different chains of trust This is becoming harder to do with the current culture wars. If each group would have respected the other that would have been possible, but it seems each group (especially the radical left if we are being honest) wants the other to comply to a new set of rules and philosophies. In schools, in the workplace and even when privately talking to each other. This makes it very difficult.
- bckr 5y ago
  I think "the radical left" is mostly reacting to upbringings that quashed personal expression, which phenomenon has been documented in the USA for centuries. So, they (and I, past tense) are reactive, unselfawarely using the tools they learned from their oppressors to try to do the opposite. And boy ever is the USA's right wing oppressive, but the oppression is in private, at home, in church, and in religious schools. What we're seeing is a breaking open and spilling over in a reverse direction of this oppression: an equal and opposite force. Yes, the "radical left" could really learn to be more respectful, but the examples of how to do so will be hard to find. Mr. Rogers comes to mind.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > And boy ever is the USA's right wing oppressive, but the oppression is in private No, its not; its just that when its been public, its been broadly supported, because the center of US political power is ideologically on the Right, or at least has been for most of modern history. So right-wing, whether economic (anti-socialist/anti-communist) or cultural (like PMRC’s push against naughty music, or the spate of internet censorship laws of the 1990s) tends to be supported not look partisan, because ot has support across both parties (the exact divide changes with partisan realignments, but for the more recent instances the Republican Party and the dominant centrist faction of Democrats tend to be in support.)
varjag 5y ago
> The difference now is that there are lies and conspiracies in different directions rather than a consensus of lies and conspiracy theories. Quite the opposite, the once-thriving ecosystem of conspiracy theories is gutted now. Social networks did to it what industrial farming did to agriculture. It's one huge monoculture spanning nations, generations, languages and cultures. Even across the professed political alignments. When once you were able to meet a person with crackpot beliefs in one area but seemingly sane in the other, now it's a wholesale deal. Listen to them rant about a single cliche conspiracy and you very much know their whole worldview on every issue down to the minute detail.
- Ambolia 5y ago
  I think there is still a whole ecosystem of conspiracies, the only reason they look more homogeneous now is because 50% of the population of america is basically "out" now, there's no narrative that integrates them into the country, so they instead coalesce around a set of simplified so called conspiracy theories. The simplifications for the masses will always look more ridiculous and basic. I like the analysis saying that america has collapsed in the last years from a "Two-Story State" to a "One-Story State", so everybody that is left out of that story is now a traitor to the country. https://americanmind.org/salvo/the-clear-pill-part-1-of-5-the-four-stroke-regime/ https://americanmind.org/salvo/the-clear-pill-part-1-of-5-th...
  - varjag 5y ago
    Thing is I'm not just talking about America, all these talking points are now transnational and come just as bundled.
- beebeepka 5y ago
  I can't relate to your experience at all. What you say is certainly true but at the same time maybe you are too quick to judge people? Try topics that aren't that hot so that real thoughts may surface instead of propaganda

joelbluminator 5y ago

> we will have to get used to the population fragmenting into different groups with different chains of trust This is becoming harder to do with the current culture wars. If each group would have respected the other that would have been possible, but it seems each group (especially the radical left if we are being honest) wants the other to comply to a new set of rules and philosophies. In schools, in the workplace and even when privately talking to each other. This makes it very difficult.

bckr 5y ago
I think "the radical left" is mostly reacting to upbringings that quashed personal expression, which phenomenon has been documented in the USA for centuries. So, they (and I, past tense) are reactive, unselfawarely using the tools they learned from their oppressors to try to do the opposite. And boy ever is the USA's right wing oppressive, but the oppression is in private, at home, in church, and in religious schools. What we're seeing is a breaking open and spilling over in a reverse direction of this oppression: an equal and opposite force. Yes, the "radical left" could really learn to be more respectful, but the examples of how to do so will be hard to find. Mr. Rogers comes to mind.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > And boy ever is the USA's right wing oppressive, but the oppression is in private No, its not; its just that when its been public, its been broadly supported, because the center of US political power is ideologically on the Right, or at least has been for most of modern history. So right-wing, whether economic (anti-socialist/anti-communist) or cultural (like PMRC’s push against naughty music, or the spate of internet censorship laws of the 1990s) tends to be supported not look partisan, because ot has support across both parties (the exact divide changes with partisan realignments, but for the more recent instances the Republican Party and the dominant centrist faction of Democrats tend to be in support.)

varjag 5y ago

> The difference now is that there are lies and conspiracies in different directions rather than a consensus of lies and conspiracy theories. Quite the opposite, the once-thriving ecosystem of conspiracy theories is gutted now. Social networks did to it what industrial farming did to agriculture. It's one huge monoculture spanning nations, generations, languages and cultures. Even across the professed political alignments. When once you were able to meet a person with crackpot beliefs in one area but seemingly sane in the other, now it's a wholesale deal. Listen to them rant about a single cliche conspiracy and you very much know their whole worldview on every issue down to the minute detail.

Ambolia 5y ago
I think there is still a whole ecosystem of conspiracies, the only reason they look more homogeneous now is because 50% of the population of america is basically "out" now, there's no narrative that integrates them into the country, so they instead coalesce around a set of simplified so called conspiracy theories. The simplifications for the masses will always look more ridiculous and basic. I like the analysis saying that america has collapsed in the last years from a "Two-Story State" to a "One-Story State", so everybody that is left out of that story is now a traitor to the country. https://americanmind.org/salvo/the-clear-pill-part-1-of-5-the-four-stroke-regime/ https://americanmind.org/salvo/the-clear-pill-part-1-of-5-th...
- varjag 5y ago
  Thing is I'm not just talking about America, all these talking points are now transnational and come just as bundled.
beebeepka 5y ago
I can't relate to your experience at all. What you say is certainly true but at the same time maybe you are too quick to judge people? Try topics that aren't that hot so that real thoughts may surface instead of propaganda