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The ludicrous and horrible price - of wearing masks? You have a twisted logic, comparing terror attacks and follow-up global wars to the horrors you must be goi

The ludicrous and horrible price - of wearing masks? You have a twisted logic, comparing terror attacks and follow-up global wars to the horrors you must be going through, masking up (or not) for the grocery store.

rkk3 5y ago
Personal attacks aren't welcome on Hackernews. > The ludicrous and horrible price - of wearing masks? Of shutting down schools? of closing borders and separating families, which since you want to trivialize things I didn't bring up, a 3 year old in my family was separated from her mother for a year and a half. I didn't specify wearing masks.. but no one knows what the effect will be of kids wearing masks all day. They are at a time of critical development & learning to read faces, non verbally communicate etc. It may turn out to have a terrible price.
- nautilius 5y ago
  Several hundred thousand people could have been saved in the US if these measures had been taken seriously, early enough, compared to other first world countries. Social distancing, closing schools, etc. were proven methods that showed the difference between cities with horrible losses and much better outcomes for the Spanish Flu. (Edit: Washington had his troops in the revolutionary war quarantined, separated, and inoculated when small pox became a problem. ) We knew all that. This weekend, we are mourning the tragical losses of a terror attack that cost the lives of 3000 innocent people. Because of people like you, who call proven measures against COVID ‘safety-isms’ we lose that many people every other day. If anything, we clearly didn’t do enough ‘safety-isms’.
  - rkk3 5y ago
    > Several hundred thousand people could have been saved in the US if these measures had been taken seriously That is baseless speculation. > Social distancing, closing schools, etc. were proven methods that showed the difference between cities with horrible losses and much better outcomes for the Spanish Flu. Where is the source? And that was a completely different disease, which had the worst outcomes for young people, so maybe taking pre-cautions for them made sense. > Because of people like you, who call proven measures against COVID ‘safety-isms’ we lose that many people every other day. You should take your dogmatism & personal attacks to another forum, where it is welcome. > we lose that many people every other day. Tragic, but they are elderly, chronically sick and had a life expectancy of less than 5 years. Also tragically under accepted normal & non idealogical circumstances, we loose around 8,000 people a day in the US.
    - nautilius 5y ago
      With a world population of 7.9 bio, global COVID deaths of 4.55 mio, a U.S. population of 328.2 mio, and U.S. COVID deaths of 661 k, the U.S. has ~4.4% of the world population, yet >14% of the COVID deaths. Even if the U.S. had managed to simply reach the average of the world of 0.058% mortality, i.e. competing against such beacons of healthcare and wealth as the Congo, the U.S. outcome would have been a mere 190k, i.e. 470k souls saved. Unless you're suggesting that U.S. Americans are somehow inherently inferior to people in other countries, or that the health care system is the world's worst, one would think that the differences will lie in policy and different measures would have changed the outcome. I'll leave it as an exercise to you to draw a fairer comparison, maybe by comparing to OECD countries rather than all of them. Astounding, how generous you are with other people's lives. Dogmatism is overlooking the data and holding on to your misbelief. You will know more about that than I do, I am afraid.
      - rkk3 5y ago
        The dataset on Covid is so wildly incomplete to invalidate the objectivity of your entire argument. > competing against such beacons of healthcare and wealth as the Congo The Democratic Republic of the Congo has had 1.23 deaths per 100k population from Covid [1]. Why do you think the US has 200x deaths per population than the DRC ? > Unless you're suggesting that U.S. Americans are somehow inherently inferior to people in other countries Yes people are not all the same, and those different factors effect outcomes. The US has a large populations that are elderly, chronically sick, urban, highly mobile etc, were tested for covid, etc. Saying hundreds of thousands of people could have been saved in the US is highly speculative. 1. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
chitowneats 5y ago
Some of us don't mask "just to go to the grocery store". That's HN software engineer privilege, 100%. Many people, including little children, are expected to wear these masks 8 hours a day. You have no idea what damage you are causing for the lower classes, the less fortunate, and American public school children. Nor do you understand the effect this has had on the campaign for mass vaccination. I can assure you this is significant. Minority enclaves in my city (Chicago), largely regard masks as "white people bullshit". I work in these communities. It's not a stretch to see why they apply that same logic to vaccine mandates (even if the vaccines would be beneficial for most of their community).
- nautilius 5y ago
  Well, we are on HN, are we not? Many people, such as doctors, nurses, certain manufacturing jobs wear masks for much longer stretches of time, for many decades already. They are fine, it works really well. But you are right, I do not understand the effect of mask wearing on vaccination. Care to elaborate?
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    Pointless mandates (masks), where the vast majority of the burden falls on the lower classes, while the laptop class pretends to be hard at work while comfortable at home, tend to breed resentment and suspicion of legitimate public health policy and intervention.
    - nautilius 5y ago
      Masks are proven to be effective against transmission. Countries with early mask mandates suffered much less than countries without. I still fail to see the extraordinary “burden” “hardship”, “sacrifice” of - wearing a mask as a proven way to save lives? Would you feel better if there was some medal attached, maybe “Great Hero of the Fight against COVID”?
      - chitowneats 5y ago

rkk3 5y ago

Personal attacks aren't welcome on Hackernews. > The ludicrous and horrible price - of wearing masks? Of shutting down schools? of closing borders and separating families, which since you want to trivialize things I didn't bring up, a 3 year old in my family was separated from her mother for a year and a half. I didn't specify wearing masks.. but no one knows what the effect will be of kids wearing masks all day. They are at a time of critical development & learning to read faces, non verbally communicate etc. It may turn out to have a terrible price.

nautilius 5y ago
Several hundred thousand people could have been saved in the US if these measures had been taken seriously, early enough, compared to other first world countries. Social distancing, closing schools, etc. were proven methods that showed the difference between cities with horrible losses and much better outcomes for the Spanish Flu. (Edit: Washington had his troops in the revolutionary war quarantined, separated, and inoculated when small pox became a problem. ) We knew all that. This weekend, we are mourning the tragical losses of a terror attack that cost the lives of 3000 innocent people. Because of people like you, who call proven measures against COVID ‘safety-isms’ we lose that many people every other day. If anything, we clearly didn’t do enough ‘safety-isms’.
- rkk3 5y ago
  > Several hundred thousand people could have been saved in the US if these measures had been taken seriously That is baseless speculation. > Social distancing, closing schools, etc. were proven methods that showed the difference between cities with horrible losses and much better outcomes for the Spanish Flu. Where is the source? And that was a completely different disease, which had the worst outcomes for young people, so maybe taking pre-cautions for them made sense. > Because of people like you, who call proven measures against COVID ‘safety-isms’ we lose that many people every other day. You should take your dogmatism & personal attacks to another forum, where it is welcome. > we lose that many people every other day. Tragic, but they are elderly, chronically sick and had a life expectancy of less than 5 years. Also tragically under accepted normal & non idealogical circumstances, we loose around 8,000 people a day in the US.
  - nautilius 5y ago
    With a world population of 7.9 bio, global COVID deaths of 4.55 mio, a U.S. population of 328.2 mio, and U.S. COVID deaths of 661 k, the U.S. has ~4.4% of the world population, yet >14% of the COVID deaths. Even if the U.S. had managed to simply reach the average of the world of 0.058% mortality, i.e. competing against such beacons of healthcare and wealth as the Congo, the U.S. outcome would have been a mere 190k, i.e. 470k souls saved. Unless you're suggesting that U.S. Americans are somehow inherently inferior to people in other countries, or that the health care system is the world's worst, one would think that the differences will lie in policy and different measures would have changed the outcome. I'll leave it as an exercise to you to draw a fairer comparison, maybe by comparing to OECD countries rather than all of them. Astounding, how generous you are with other people's lives. Dogmatism is overlooking the data and holding on to your misbelief. You will know more about that than I do, I am afraid.
    - rkk3 5y ago
      The dataset on Covid is so wildly incomplete to invalidate the objectivity of your entire argument. > competing against such beacons of healthcare and wealth as the Congo The Democratic Republic of the Congo has had 1.23 deaths per 100k population from Covid [1]. Why do you think the US has 200x deaths per population than the DRC ? > Unless you're suggesting that U.S. Americans are somehow inherently inferior to people in other countries Yes people are not all the same, and those different factors effect outcomes. The US has a large populations that are elderly, chronically sick, urban, highly mobile etc, were tested for covid, etc. Saying hundreds of thousands of people could have been saved in the US is highly speculative. 1. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

chitowneats 5y ago

Some of us don't mask "just to go to the grocery store". That's HN software engineer privilege, 100%. Many people, including little children, are expected to wear these masks 8 hours a day. You have no idea what damage you are causing for the lower classes, the less fortunate, and American public school children. Nor do you understand the effect this has had on the campaign for mass vaccination. I can assure you this is significant. Minority enclaves in my city (Chicago), largely regard masks as "white people bullshit". I work in these communities. It's not a stretch to see why they apply that same logic to vaccine mandates (even if the vaccines would be beneficial for most of their community).

nautilius 5y ago
Well, we are on HN, are we not? Many people, such as doctors, nurses, certain manufacturing jobs wear masks for much longer stretches of time, for many decades already. They are fine, it works really well. But you are right, I do not understand the effect of mask wearing on vaccination. Care to elaborate?
- chitowneats 5y ago
  Pointless mandates (masks), where the vast majority of the burden falls on the lower classes, while the laptop class pretends to be hard at work while comfortable at home, tend to breed resentment and suspicion of legitimate public health policy and intervention.
  - nautilius 5y ago
    Masks are proven to be effective against transmission. Countries with early mask mandates suffered much less than countries without. I still fail to see the extraordinary “burden” “hardship”, “sacrifice” of - wearing a mask as a proven way to save lives? Would you feel better if there was some medal attached, maybe “Great Hero of the Fight against COVID”?
    - chitowneats 5y ago