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More precisely Epic won nothing, as they have no prospect of getting any future revenue from the iOS ecosystem, save for winning on appeal.

MattRix 5y ago
Apple has said that they will reinstate Epic’s account if they agree to follow the rules, so Epic can earn future revenue on iOS if they want to… but so far they’ve said they don’t plan to change their stance.
- simondotau 5y ago
  That is true and I stand corrected. I had discounted that as a potential option due to Tim Sweeney's prior and current statements on the matter.
- gpm 5y ago
  Have they said this recently (i.e. do we know if that offer still exists?) The latest from Tim Sweeney sounds like they're trying to get the account back for Mac OS, though they're not interested in iOS at this time. I assume that means they're willing to follow the rules by simply not publishing iOS apps (but that is an assumption) (All tweets from Sept 10 2021) > Fortnite will return to the iOS App Store when and where Epic can offer in-app payment in fair competition with Apple in-app payment, passing along the savings to consumers. https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1436370846545809410 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/143637084654580941... > Like Apple’s attempt to retaliate against all Unreal Engine customers, their refusal to restore Epic’s Fortnite developer account is vindicative and nonsensical. We’re fighting Apple over their iOS terms, but this ban blocks Fortnite from Mac too. Nobody’s arguing about Mac. https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1436340363720118277 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/143634036372011827...
  - MattRix 5y ago
    Yup, Apple just said this to The Verge: “As we’ve said all along, we would welcome Epic’s return to the App Store if they agree to play by the same rules as everyone else”. https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/10/22666146/apple-epic-korea-fortnite-developer-account-rules-response https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/10/22666146/apple-epic-korea...
gpm 5y ago
Eh, if Epic manages to find a way to continue to develop unreal engine for iOS, they won an increased revenue stream from unreal engine royalties. Epic is also 50% owned by tencent, who in turns owns numerous mobile app companies, who will profit from this. So in the sense that Epic lives to help out there share holders... they didn't do so bad a job.
- pwinnski 5y ago
  Apple will now be allowed to terminate Epic's developer account for Unreal Engine, if they choose to do so. So no, Epic did very, very, very poorly.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  Isn’t it 40% ownership by Tencent? I don’t think they ever were able to get more ownership stake. They might even own less than 40% now.
  - gpm 5y ago
    Ah, it looks like you're more right than I am. They acquired a 40% total stake, which was 48% of the outstanding shares. I don't think we know of them selling any shares, but I'm not sure that we would.
bogwog 5y ago
It's scary to think that the entire software industry is controlled by a few gate keepers, and if you piss them off, the chances of you ever selling a piece of software ever again are basically zero. It's like if you get banned from every restaurant/grocery store in the world, your only chance to not starve is to purchase land and grow your own food. Except, there are only 2 grocery stores in the world. Without Apple and Google's permission, it's impossible to make money selling mobile apps. So if that's your livelihood, you're better off letting them exploit you than risk pissing them off for any reason (and pray you don't get erroneously banned by an AI). Sounds like a healthy environment for innovation /s
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  It's scary to think that the entire political speech industry controlled by a few gate keepers, and if you piss them off, the chances of you ever sharing your opinion ever again are basically zero. It's like if you get banned from every town square in the world, your only chance to get the word out is to purchase posters and put them on lampposts. Without YouTube and Facebook's permission, it's impossible to make money sharing your opinion on how the world should be. So if that's your livelihood, you're better off letting them exploit you than risk pissing them off for any reason (and pray you don't get erroneously banned by an AI). Sounds like a healthy environment for democracy /s
  - bogwog 5y ago
    I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
- sombremesa 5y ago
  The sentiment you state is common FUD on HN but that's not how the world works. In fact, the software industry probably has fewer gatekeepers than most industries, by way of being relatively immature. That's if you count actual gatekeepers like regulatory bodies. As for competiton and business decisions, those are not gatekeepers*, that is competition and business decisions. * I'm making a distinction here between "gatekeeping", which anyone may participate in (e.g. people who rally against or challenge women gamers), and "gatekeepers", entities with the power and authority to decisively determine what is and isn't allowed (like the bouncer at a club). Not everyone who is "gatekeeping" is a "gatekeeper".

MattRix 5y ago

Apple has said that they will reinstate Epic’s account if they agree to follow the rules, so Epic can earn future revenue on iOS if they want to… but so far they’ve said they don’t plan to change their stance.

simondotau 5y ago
That is true and I stand corrected. I had discounted that as a potential option due to Tim Sweeney's prior and current statements on the matter.
gpm 5y ago
Have they said this recently (i.e. do we know if that offer still exists?) The latest from Tim Sweeney sounds like they're trying to get the account back for Mac OS, though they're not interested in iOS at this time. I assume that means they're willing to follow the rules by simply not publishing iOS apps (but that is an assumption) (All tweets from Sept 10 2021) > Fortnite will return to the iOS App Store when and where Epic can offer in-app payment in fair competition with Apple in-app payment, passing along the savings to consumers. https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1436370846545809410 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/143637084654580941... > Like Apple’s attempt to retaliate against all Unreal Engine customers, their refusal to restore Epic’s Fortnite developer account is vindicative and nonsensical. We’re fighting Apple over their iOS terms, but this ban blocks Fortnite from Mac too. Nobody’s arguing about Mac. https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1436340363720118277 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/143634036372011827...
- MattRix 5y ago
  Yup, Apple just said this to The Verge: “As we’ve said all along, we would welcome Epic’s return to the App Store if they agree to play by the same rules as everyone else”. https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/10/22666146/apple-epic-korea-fortnite-developer-account-rules-response https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/10/22666146/apple-epic-korea...

gpm 5y ago

Eh, if Epic manages to find a way to continue to develop unreal engine for iOS, they won an increased revenue stream from unreal engine royalties. Epic is also 50% owned by tencent, who in turns owns numerous mobile app companies, who will profit from this. So in the sense that Epic lives to help out there share holders... they didn't do so bad a job.

pwinnski 5y ago
Apple will now be allowed to terminate Epic's developer account for Unreal Engine, if they choose to do so. So no, Epic did very, very, very poorly.
skinnymuch 5y ago
Isn’t it 40% ownership by Tencent? I don’t think they ever were able to get more ownership stake. They might even own less than 40% now.
- gpm 5y ago
  Ah, it looks like you're more right than I am. They acquired a 40% total stake, which was 48% of the outstanding shares. I don't think we know of them selling any shares, but I'm not sure that we would.

bogwog 5y ago

It's scary to think that the entire software industry is controlled by a few gate keepers, and if you piss them off, the chances of you ever selling a piece of software ever again are basically zero. It's like if you get banned from every restaurant/grocery store in the world, your only chance to not starve is to purchase land and grow your own food. Except, there are only 2 grocery stores in the world. Without Apple and Google's permission, it's impossible to make money selling mobile apps. So if that's your livelihood, you're better off letting them exploit you than risk pissing them off for any reason (and pray you don't get erroneously banned by an AI). Sounds like a healthy environment for innovation /s

gjsman-1000 5y ago
It's scary to think that the entire political speech industry controlled by a few gate keepers, and if you piss them off, the chances of you ever sharing your opinion ever again are basically zero. It's like if you get banned from every town square in the world, your only chance to get the word out is to purchase posters and put them on lampposts. Without YouTube and Facebook's permission, it's impossible to make money sharing your opinion on how the world should be. So if that's your livelihood, you're better off letting them exploit you than risk pissing them off for any reason (and pray you don't get erroneously banned by an AI). Sounds like a healthy environment for democracy /s
- bogwog 5y ago
  I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
sombremesa 5y ago
The sentiment you state is common FUD on HN but that's not how the world works. In fact, the software industry probably has fewer gatekeepers than most industries, by way of being relatively immature. That's if you count actual gatekeepers like regulatory bodies. As for competiton and business decisions, those are not gatekeepers*, that is competition and business decisions. * I'm making a distinction here between "gatekeeping", which anyone may participate in (e.g. people who rally against or challenge women gamers), and "gatekeepers", entities with the power and authority to decisively determine what is and isn't allowed (like the bouncer at a club). Not everyone who is "gatekeeping" is a "gatekeeper".