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>They’re portrayed as tragically ridiculous players vying for power and positive public image who’ll drop their “principles” at the drop of a hat if it suits th

>They’re portrayed as tragically ridiculous players vying for power and positive public image who’ll drop their “principles” at the drop of a hat if it suits them And that cynical portrayal of politics is itself part of the exact ideology that Thatcher tried to promote, so I don't really see why you think that contradicts OPs point. It's like the joke that Reagan used to repeat "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help". It wasn't an actual self-demeaning joke, the intention was to demean governance itself at every moment possible.

linksnapzz 5y ago
What a tragedy. Lese-Majeste towards civil servants and politicians. Of all the things to be less cynical about, we must be less cynical about the motivations of those that seek temporal power!
- Barrin92 5y ago
  >we must be less cynical about the motivations of those that seek temporal power is there anyone not seeking temporal power? Are private sector shareholders on a quest for spiritual enlightenment or something? Is the board of Facebook filled with Zen Buddhists? The notion that competing for petty status and power is somehow unique to administration and government is one of the consequences of shows like Yes, Minister. And actually yes, we should be less cynical of civil servants and politicians. A pathological disregard of them has, for example, significantly worsened one of the worst public health crisis in decades.
  - linksnapzz 5y ago
    Jay and Lynne had the remit to make a show about Whitehall. Skewering private enterprise was/is very much doable (Scott Adams has been doing that daily, for decades), but that doesn’t negate the premise of YM. And actually yes, we should be less cynical of civil servants and politicians Donald Trump appreciates the support. A pathological disregard of them has, for example, significantly worsened one of the worst public health crisis in decades. Please let us all know which ones to pay attention to-I’d like to heed only the ones that can make testable predictions, and agree to quit if they get enough of those wrong.
- nsajko 5y ago
  The point is that the two shows ("almost every episode") were purposefully meant as propaganda, as Jay himself explains in the quote. That's not just cynicism.
  - linksnapzz 5y ago
    It's not propaganda, either, unless propaganda is held to mean "entertainment that makes a point I'd prefer not be made". YM was created & distributed by the BBC, a government apparatus staffed by the same civil servants and politicians that the show is ostensibly propagandizing against. How effective could it possibly be, and still make it on the air?
    - nsajko 5y ago
      Consider that you're contradicting the very creator of the two shows.
nyokodo 5y ago
> And that cynical portrayal of politics is itself part of the exact ideology that Thatcher tried to promote Putting aside the fact that if that were true Thatcher would still be lampooning herself, the show isn’t purely cynical about government. In the show the rank and file in the public service are full of competent, well meaning, and principled people. The show is cynical about those who rise to the top and the system that tramples the well meaning, however, that is a very bipartisan sentiment in every country with free speech rights.

linksnapzz 5y ago

What a tragedy. Lese-Majeste towards civil servants and politicians. Of all the things to be less cynical about, we must be less cynical about the motivations of those that seek temporal power!

Barrin92 5y ago
>we must be less cynical about the motivations of those that seek temporal power is there anyone not seeking temporal power? Are private sector shareholders on a quest for spiritual enlightenment or something? Is the board of Facebook filled with Zen Buddhists? The notion that competing for petty status and power is somehow unique to administration and government is one of the consequences of shows like Yes, Minister. And actually yes, we should be less cynical of civil servants and politicians. A pathological disregard of them has, for example, significantly worsened one of the worst public health crisis in decades.
- linksnapzz 5y ago
  Jay and Lynne had the remit to make a show about Whitehall. Skewering private enterprise was/is very much doable (Scott Adams has been doing that daily, for decades), but that doesn’t negate the premise of YM. And actually yes, we should be less cynical of civil servants and politicians Donald Trump appreciates the support. A pathological disregard of them has, for example, significantly worsened one of the worst public health crisis in decades. Please let us all know which ones to pay attention to-I’d like to heed only the ones that can make testable predictions, and agree to quit if they get enough of those wrong.
nsajko 5y ago
The point is that the two shows ("almost every episode") were purposefully meant as propaganda, as Jay himself explains in the quote. That's not just cynicism.
- linksnapzz 5y ago
  It's not propaganda, either, unless propaganda is held to mean "entertainment that makes a point I'd prefer not be made". YM was created & distributed by the BBC, a government apparatus staffed by the same civil servants and politicians that the show is ostensibly propagandizing against. How effective could it possibly be, and still make it on the air?
  - nsajko 5y ago
    Consider that you're contradicting the very creator of the two shows.

nyokodo 5y ago

> And that cynical portrayal of politics is itself part of the exact ideology that Thatcher tried to promote Putting aside the fact that if that were true Thatcher would still be lampooning herself, the show isn’t purely cynical about government. In the show the rank and file in the public service are full of competent, well meaning, and principled people. The show is cynical about those who rise to the top and the system that tramples the well meaning, however, that is a very bipartisan sentiment in every country with free speech rights.