3 ms·

Probably the same way you're prevented from selling CP, and fully automatic fire arms out of your home? It won't stop it 100%, but it certainly has an effect.

mcculley 5y ago
Would you eliminate sales of Internet-connected security cameras? Or just the sale of the data they collect? I am trying to understand how you think this is a genie that can be rebottled.
- pope_meat 5y ago
  It's worth trying to get at least some of the genie back in the bottle. The laws against CP and automatic fire arms aren't 100% effective either, but that doesn't mean we abandon the idea of trying to regulate the activity completely, does it?
  - mcculley 5y ago
    I am not arguing it would not be worthwhile to try. I argued that this data being collected and aggregated is inevitable. I still have not read a convincing reply otherwise. The ALPR data market is a perfect example of where we are heading.
- mLuby 5y ago
  Banning individual product classes is a sure-fire way to keep regulators forever playing catch-up with industry. Most ideal: make personal data a massive business liability, such that personal data is rarely even collected, let alone stored. This is much more possible than people believe (even making exceptions for current regulations like KYC). Does the local pizza place need to know anything more than my order, where to deliver it, and that the money arrived in their account?‡ Does a hotel or airline need anything other than a confirmation code to hand over the room key or seat? And yes, this may kill off or force pivots from businesses that exist today solely to spy on us—that's the point! Only okay: personal data isn't shared or sold to third parties. Businesses can collect data on their own users, but it can't leak beyond the corp firewall or else big penalties come into play. Only okay because leaks are almost mathematically inevitable, so there will be constant lobby pressure to relax regulations, or enforcement thereof. Not good: personal data can be collected, retained, and sold by basically all companies, and the penalties for unintentionally disclosing those data are just slaps on the wrist. At least it can't get much worse though, right? Right?? Businesses will adapt to any set of regulations—it's up to us citizens to demand the laws we want. ‡But what about remembering your favorite orders, or saving customers time by not entering their info for each new order? One options is to let them bookmark the page, so their device can get back to it easily.
  - mcculley 5y ago
    I am not arguing for any laws. I am saying that I don't see how any legislation will stop this technology from being used to identify and track people. We saw how eager people were to install Google Analytics on their websites. They don't care what they do to their users.

mcculley 5y ago

Would you eliminate sales of Internet-connected security cameras? Or just the sale of the data they collect? I am trying to understand how you think this is a genie that can be rebottled.

pope_meat 5y ago
It's worth trying to get at least some of the genie back in the bottle. The laws against CP and automatic fire arms aren't 100% effective either, but that doesn't mean we abandon the idea of trying to regulate the activity completely, does it?
- mcculley 5y ago
  I am not arguing it would not be worthwhile to try. I argued that this data being collected and aggregated is inevitable. I still have not read a convincing reply otherwise. The ALPR data market is a perfect example of where we are heading.
mLuby 5y ago
Banning individual product classes is a sure-fire way to keep regulators forever playing catch-up with industry. Most ideal: make personal data a massive business liability, such that personal data is rarely even collected, let alone stored. This is much more possible than people believe (even making exceptions for current regulations like KYC). Does the local pizza place need to know anything more than my order, where to deliver it, and that the money arrived in their account?‡ Does a hotel or airline need anything other than a confirmation code to hand over the room key or seat? And yes, this may kill off or force pivots from businesses that exist today solely to spy on us—that's the point! Only okay: personal data isn't shared or sold to third parties. Businesses can collect data on their own users, but it can't leak beyond the corp firewall or else big penalties come into play. Only okay because leaks are almost mathematically inevitable, so there will be constant lobby pressure to relax regulations, or enforcement thereof. Not good: personal data can be collected, retained, and sold by basically all companies, and the penalties for unintentionally disclosing those data are just slaps on the wrist. At least it can't get much worse though, right? Right?? Businesses will adapt to any set of regulations—it's up to us citizens to demand the laws we want. ‡But what about remembering your favorite orders, or saving customers time by not entering their info for each new order? One options is to let them bookmark the page, so their device can get back to it easily.
- mcculley 5y ago
  I am not arguing for any laws. I am saying that I don't see how any legislation will stop this technology from being used to identify and track people. We saw how eager people were to install Google Analytics on their websites. They don't care what they do to their users.