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> Because I'm pretty sure that the people going through the trash would stop in an instant if they were offered a better alternative. Mostly, yes. Having been

> Because I'm pretty sure that the people going through the trash would stop in an instant if they were offered a better alternative. Mostly, yes. Having been homeless myself for an extended period, I saw just how much mental illnesses impact so many people experiencing homelessness. In my completely unscientific lodgings with them, I'd say its probably around 30% of the people have some sort of debilitating mental illness. I had other reasons for homelessness (lost job, eviction) which are much more mechanical and easier to fix. I've talked with my SO about the mentally ill on the streets, and the only plan that seems to might work is to forcefully treat them, get them mentally sound, explain their whole situation, and have them choose. It would be in writing, and sealed with a palmscan. And I get that forcefully treating them once may be considered abhorrent, but they are not able in their state of mind to make decisions for themselves. Once they're of sound mind, they should then have complete agency to choose to remain on the streets, or to obtain emergency services to get out of homelessness.

watwut 5y ago
AFAIK, it is kind of cycle. Being mentally ill makes you more likely to be homeless. Being homeless makes all your mental health issues much much worst.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  > AFAIK, it is kind of cycle. For folks who need meds, getting them to stay on them can be hugely difficult. It's even harder when that person lacks shelter and support.
trulyme 5y ago
Or maybe just offer them some basic food for free, so they don't need to dig in trash cans for it? At least the western societies (I don't know and have no opinion on others) are producing enough food that there is no reason not to offer some basic nutrition to everyone.
- yesasaservice 5y ago
  (created alt cause of HN's idiotic "posting too fast" - how dare I have a conversation with people online) I don't understand what I said somehow excludes helping in other ways. My views are probably a bit more radical, in that I think that everyone should have free food. Homeless, homeful, working, unemployed, citizen, foreigner. Everyone. No exceptions. And, we already have a basis to maintain this system - SNAP. So when I talked about how to help those whom are experiencing homelessness combined with debilitating mental illnesses, I'm talking of making that program... Not by destroying other programs.
  - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
    My 1 second old idea is for their psych clinic to offer free food in trade for checking their blood levels. It the meds are insufficient, they get Rx food. Can't tell if I'll offer that idea again, once I think about it.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  > At least the western societies are producing enough food that there is no reason not to offer some basic nutrition to everyone. I live in one of the southern US states that tends to be hostile towards people in need. My kids and I had on-and-off hunger 2008-2018.
- kelp 5y ago
  No one is really looking for food in the trash cans in the Bay Area. They are looking for recyclables that they can turn in for cash. Or other things that have some value that they can turn in for cash. In the Bay Area there are plenty of ways to get fed. Happy to be shown I'm wrong, but I don't think it's common to be lacking for food.
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
I was homeless for less than a year. In my case, my mom (term cancer) and I were tossed from our long time family home. The way - the only way - my homelessness ended is I had help.
ficklepickle 5y ago
I know it is a tempting idea, but forced treatment is an oxymoron. You can't force anybody to get healthy, unfortunately. As usual, prevention is worth a metric shit ton of treatment. Apart from that, all you can really do is reduce harm and marginally improve quality of life through housing, etc. Not that a marginal improvement in QoL is anything to scoff at.
- awillen 5y ago
  This isn't true, and the fact that you call it forcing people to get healthy shows you're missing the point. It's not about getting someone healthy, it's about getting them to a point that they are of sound enough mind that they can make rational decisions. If you hear voices that tell you that antipsychotic medication is going to kill you, you won't take it. The idea that you're choosing to not take medication of your free will is wrong - your free will is compromised by a mental illness so severe that your perception of reality isn't even correct. How can you possibly decide what's best for yourself if you can't accurately understand the world around you? The point of this kind of forced treatment is to get people into a state where their brain isn't lying to them and they have a basic understanding of what's happening, so that they can then make decisions. The folks who say it's unethical to force this kind of treatment sound like they're sticking up for folks with severe mental illness, but they're really just condemning them to suffer from that mental illness for life, because without some kind of outside help they simply can't take the actions needed to stop suffering from it, because it prevents them from doing so.
kirsebaer 5y ago
There are very few mentally ill people wandering the streets in Oslo, Norway. I have seen one guy with unkept dredlocks who seems to enjoy hanging around and chatting to passers by, but he almost certainly has a public-funded apartment and generous disability pension. The difference is very striking compared with Boston (a city with similar climate to Oslo) where there are many obviously mentally ill people wandering around talking nonsense, begging for money, carrying their things in plastic bags, and sleeping on the ground.

watwut 5y ago

AFAIK, it is kind of cycle. Being mentally ill makes you more likely to be homeless. Being homeless makes all your mental health issues much much worst.

WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
> AFAIK, it is kind of cycle. For folks who need meds, getting them to stay on them can be hugely difficult. It's even harder when that person lacks shelter and support.

trulyme 5y ago

Or maybe just offer them some basic food for free, so they don't need to dig in trash cans for it? At least the western societies (I don't know and have no opinion on others) are producing enough food that there is no reason not to offer some basic nutrition to everyone.

yesasaservice 5y ago
(created alt cause of HN's idiotic "posting too fast" - how dare I have a conversation with people online) I don't understand what I said somehow excludes helping in other ways. My views are probably a bit more radical, in that I think that everyone should have free food. Homeless, homeful, working, unemployed, citizen, foreigner. Everyone. No exceptions. And, we already have a basis to maintain this system - SNAP. So when I talked about how to help those whom are experiencing homelessness combined with debilitating mental illnesses, I'm talking of making that program... Not by destroying other programs.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  My 1 second old idea is for their psych clinic to offer free food in trade for checking their blood levels. It the meds are insufficient, they get Rx food. Can't tell if I'll offer that idea again, once I think about it.
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
> At least the western societies are producing enough food that there is no reason not to offer some basic nutrition to everyone. I live in one of the southern US states that tends to be hostile towards people in need. My kids and I had on-and-off hunger 2008-2018.
kelp 5y ago
No one is really looking for food in the trash cans in the Bay Area. They are looking for recyclables that they can turn in for cash. Or other things that have some value that they can turn in for cash. In the Bay Area there are plenty of ways to get fed. Happy to be shown I'm wrong, but I don't think it's common to be lacking for food.

WarOnPrivacy 5y ago

I was homeless for less than a year. In my case, my mom (term cancer) and I were tossed from our long time family home. The way - the only way - my homelessness ended is I had help.

ficklepickle 5y ago

I know it is a tempting idea, but forced treatment is an oxymoron. You can't force anybody to get healthy, unfortunately. As usual, prevention is worth a metric shit ton of treatment. Apart from that, all you can really do is reduce harm and marginally improve quality of life through housing, etc. Not that a marginal improvement in QoL is anything to scoff at.

awillen 5y ago
This isn't true, and the fact that you call it forcing people to get healthy shows you're missing the point. It's not about getting someone healthy, it's about getting them to a point that they are of sound enough mind that they can make rational decisions. If you hear voices that tell you that antipsychotic medication is going to kill you, you won't take it. The idea that you're choosing to not take medication of your free will is wrong - your free will is compromised by a mental illness so severe that your perception of reality isn't even correct. How can you possibly decide what's best for yourself if you can't accurately understand the world around you? The point of this kind of forced treatment is to get people into a state where their brain isn't lying to them and they have a basic understanding of what's happening, so that they can then make decisions. The folks who say it's unethical to force this kind of treatment sound like they're sticking up for folks with severe mental illness, but they're really just condemning them to suffer from that mental illness for life, because without some kind of outside help they simply can't take the actions needed to stop suffering from it, because it prevents them from doing so.

kirsebaer 5y ago

There are very few mentally ill people wandering the streets in Oslo, Norway. I have seen one guy with unkept dredlocks who seems to enjoy hanging around and chatting to passers by, but he almost certainly has a public-funded apartment and generous disability pension. The difference is very striking compared with Boston (a city with similar climate to Oslo) where there are many obviously mentally ill people wandering around talking nonsense, begging for money, carrying their things in plastic bags, and sleeping on the ground.