4 ms·

Softlaunch of buddhalists, not just another todo list app.

10 points by templaedhel 15y ago

templaedhel 15y ago
Proud to announce the (soft) launch of http://buddhalists.com/ http://buddhalists.com/, my first foray into paid SaaS web apps. Please read on before tossing this out as “yet another todo list app”. http://buddhalists.com/ http://buddhalists.com/ http://buddhalists.com/demo/ http://buddhalists.com/demo/ http://buddhalists.com/signup/ http://buddhalists.com/signup/ But first the story. I create web apps I would use, mainly so I can use them. I find myself taking lists for all sorts of things, and wishing I could digitize them somehow. http://buddhalists.com/ http://buddhalists.com/ is the solution for me. I sampled every list app in the app store (a good $60 worth) and found that they were 1. mostly focused on todo lists 2. either too simple (think one page list) or too complex (think color coded tags with autosort built in) 3. Always limited to either managing one list, or several flat lists. I was hoping for recursion. This is what http://buddhalists.com/ http://buddhalists.com/ brings to the table. Simple unconstraining lists with nice design, no rules, and infinite recursion. For more explanation, see the demo. For a more detailed breakdown as to why other list taking solutions were non ideal, see http://pastebin.com/QVynrfkC http://pastebin.com/QVynrfkC. As far as tech goes, mongodb with nodejs backend, spine.js powered javascript heavy UI. Stripe for payments.
- sajithw 15y ago
  Edit: Realized you discussed WorkFlowy in your analysis. I find the name distasteful. Would you be comfortable releasing an app called jesuslists? Same idea.
- mikk0j 15y ago
  Do proofread everything you put in <h1> tags. Even for a softlaunch.
headsclouds 15y ago
From a design point of view (I'm a designer), I think you went overboard. When I am working I don't want anything getting in the way between me and the list items. In your analysis of your competitors, for Workflowy you said that it's confusing to have many nested lists (I'm paraphrasing here), but the thing is—I find WorkFlowy way more logical than your service. The nesting is a visual guide for the user, letting them know where they are within the tree. At first I couldn't figure our how to check items off, but then I noticed the little tiny “x” to the right, dangerously close to the “>>”. Feel free to beef that one up, and space these two out. Also, apparently I can't check off the last item in the list? That's strange, but it might be a bug. Lastly, I love the help overlay, nice!
michael_dorfman 15y ago
I'm not thrilled about the name. First, it seems pretty disrespectful to use religious imagery, etc., for a commercial product, especially if you are not a practitioner of said religion. This is doubly worrisome by the text that seems to suggest that "zen" (or, rather, Zen) and "Buddhism" are interchangeable concepts. They're not. Second, if you are a practitioner, you're undoubtedly aware of the large role that lists play in Buddhism-- which means that it's a bit deceptive to have a product named "Buddhalists" (or Buddalists-- see below) and not have the product based on the traditional Buddhist conception of lists. Third: you don't even get the spelling straight on your own headline. That's scary.
- armandososa 15y ago
  And if you are a practitioner of another religion you won't feel comfortable using this either.
- ayanb 15y ago
  I agree to this. The nomenclature and messaging seems pretty casual.
- chanux 15y ago
  I have to agree with you (I'm a Buddhist). Anyway, it doesn't make me feel any worse than what I'd feel of jesuslist or something. The problem is, not many happen to think like me. Some people get very much offended. So the name won't go well with any serious app.
- bfe 15y ago
  If they make as many coding errors as spelling errors, I'll stick with my current list app.
- unicornporn 15y ago
  I'm not thrilled either. Sorry if I come around as harsh, but that "bring zen to your life for $10 a month" rhetoric feels quite cheap (admittedly speaking as a zazen practitioner).
anghyflawn 15y ago
Would I be far off the mark if I thought this is something like org-mode without the Emacs? (And yes, you should get the title right.)
c1sc0 15y ago
This is in no way a criticism of the actual app, but has building a to-do list become our day's "writing your own text editor"? Fascinating how a new one seems to pop up every day.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- wingerlang 15y ago
  I think it is because of the fact that lists usually are super individual and must fit someones workflow. I actually wrote my own the other day. I have tested a LOT of websites and apps but everything seems too cluttered. So I made my own with these points in mind: - MINIMAL - Minimal functions. OR they should be invisible until needed. (arrows to the right on the site) + (statistics icon with hover on right to the top) - Multiple lists (categories) on ONE page so that they does not disappear. - Chrome extension for adding things - BONUS: Some kind of achievment system would be nice for keeping you motivated. Points for completing and -points for failing to-dos. Works for me, others might not like it. http://wingerlang.se/demo/ http://wingerlang.se/demo/ Links on bottom to category-view (wich is like "archive" and not like the to-do list) things can be moved around by clicking the arrow-link
arondeparon 15y ago
Apart from having a name and style that tries to invoke 'zenlike' feelings, what does the app actually do that makes it stand out? There are 1000+1 todo apps, many of which focussing on the 'less is more' principle. I don't see how this app is different, apart from charging a really soothing $10 per month....
va1en0k 15y ago
seems like an excessively designed analog of http://workflowy.com/ http://workflowy.com/, which is awesome and simple, and arguably more Zen
cowboyhero 15y ago
I like the simplicity of this. Like headsclouds, I couldn't figure out at first how to make "sub" items. Due to old habits, I kept trying to hit "tab" to indent a new item. Now for the hard part. In a previous career, I used to spend a lot of time with marketers. They always used to talk about "share of wallet" and the phrase stuck with me. In short: Unless someone is loose with their cash, there's a limited amount of money they're going to want to spend on online subscriptions (of any kind). Given that your app is actually more expensive than a month of Netflix or Amazon Prime, how do you justify the price? Note: I'm not saying you need to lower your price, just that you need to be more explicit about the value proposition. Especially because stuff like Tadalist and Workflowy are free or freemium offerings.
litmus 15y ago
hmm...back blaze charges 5 dollars a month to back up my computer with unlimited storage. you're charging 10 dollars a month for unlimited nested strings. the computer says..........no. silliness aside, maybe try a forum for busy execs. Might get better input & target customers.
skrebbel 15y ago
I think 10$ for an obvious weekend hack is quite a lot.
- zokiboy 15y ago
  It's even more expensive than OmniFocus - $79 for life, and this is $120 for a year.
- patio11 15y ago
  obvious weekend hack But people will pay $300 for a lawyer writing a letter which says, attached to the letter, "This took forty eight minutes to write." And this is why you should never, never take pricing advice on HN. [Edit: My conclusion here was excessively strong. Working on a blog post now, because I feel the need to vent a little about this. $10 is not a lot of money. Customers do not pay for how much you appeared to have worked. Argh.]
  - skrebbel 15y ago
    The lawyer charges you once. Also, the lawyer charges you alone. Also, lawyers are overpriced, but that's another story.
    - skrebbel 15y ago
      Genuinely wondering how my pointing out that monthly subscription fees aren't one-time service fees deserves me downvotes?
  - hsmyers 15y ago
    Only people with money think that 10.00 is not a lot of money. 120.00 a year could be a significant chunk of the target's disposable funds. If don't have money then it might as well be 400.00. On the other hand, 12.00 or 24.00 a year might well be 'not a lot of money'---perception here is based on content of wallet, not your marketing notions. Review history of Borland's C/C++ compiler versus Microsoft's---yes Microsoft won the war, but not without making Borland enormously successful.
Robin_Message 15y ago
Works quite nicely, I like it. One small suggestion -- if I push right inside the text box, and I've just come from pushing left, then go back to that item. For example, say I'm looking at the shopping list in your demo. I'm on "get veggies". I want to add tomato, but I can't remember if I had a "get fruits" category. So I push left, glance down, see that I don't and decide to put tomato into veggies anyway. Then I push right and nothing happens. Instead, where possible, right should move me back, so I can go left-right and be back where I started. Bonus points for left-left-left-right-right-right working :)
dadads 15y ago
Nice app and all, but I don't see myself paying $10 for something I could easily replicate in a day. Not trying to be mean or anything, but perhaps I'm not the target market here.
neilbowers 15y ago
(1) you've spelled the product name two different ways in the first 3 lines. (2) why would I pay $10/month for this when checkvist does this and more for $0/month? (3) the help overlay is nice. (4) interaction on lists not intuitive.
Maro 15y ago
How do you want to compete with Evernote? It's available as a web app, native apps for iOS, MacOS, Windows (all my platforms, also Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry), and it works great on all platforms. It syncs so I have native access everywhere. It supports some minimal formatting, but doesn't get in the way. It works great for managing multiple notes, kind of like an Inbox. Notes are private be default, but I can share them with people or make them public. Oh, and Evernote is free. So, what problem are you solving for $10 that Evernote doesn't solve much better for free? Also, Evernote has $95M funding, so their velocity is probably 100x yours. PS: This is a harsh comment, but the intention is constructive. If you don't have good answers to these questions, then it's back to the drawing board!
madaerodog 15y ago
My 2 cents : Google Tasks blows this out of the water.
zokiboy 15y ago
Putting name and price aside I don't like deep nesting approach for lists. I tend to have too many levels and it's cumbersome to click so many times. I like to have an option to see all my tasks at same level and get nice overview of everything I want to do.
nikcub 15y ago
nice that you are using spine - it is a great little framework

10 points by templaedhel 15y ago

Proud to announce the (soft) launch of http://buddhalists.com/ http://buddhalists.com/, my first foray into paid SaaS web apps. Please read on before tossing this out as “yet another todo list app”. http://buddhalists.com/ http://buddhalists.com/ http://buddhalists.com/demo/ http://buddhalists.com/demo/ http://buddhalists.com/signup/ http://buddhalists.com/signup/ But first the story. I create web apps I would use, mainly so I can use them. I find myself taking lists for all sorts of things, and wishing I could digitize them somehow. http://buddhalists.com/ http://buddhalists.com/ is the solution for me. I sampled every list app in the app store (a good $60 worth) and found that they were 1. mostly focused on todo lists 2. either too simple (think one page list) or too complex (think color coded tags with autosort built in) 3. Always limited to either managing one list, or several flat lists. I was hoping for recursion. This is what http://buddhalists.com/ http://buddhalists.com/ brings to the table. Simple unconstraining lists with nice design, no rules, and infinite recursion. For more explanation, see the demo. For a more detailed breakdown as to why other list taking solutions were non ideal, see http://pastebin.com/QVynrfkC http://pastebin.com/QVynrfkC. As far as tech goes, mongodb with nodejs backend, spine.js powered javascript heavy UI. Stripe for payments.

sajithw 15y ago
Edit: Realized you discussed WorkFlowy in your analysis. I find the name distasteful. Would you be comfortable releasing an app called jesuslists? Same idea.
mikk0j 15y ago
Do proofread everything you put in <h1> tags. Even for a softlaunch.

headsclouds 15y ago

From a design point of view (I'm a designer), I think you went overboard. When I am working I don't want anything getting in the way between me and the list items. In your analysis of your competitors, for Workflowy you said that it's confusing to have many nested lists (I'm paraphrasing here), but the thing is—I find WorkFlowy way more logical than your service. The nesting is a visual guide for the user, letting them know where they are within the tree. At first I couldn't figure our how to check items off, but then I noticed the little tiny “x” to the right, dangerously close to the “>>”. Feel free to beef that one up, and space these two out. Also, apparently I can't check off the last item in the list? That's strange, but it might be a bug. Lastly, I love the help overlay, nice!

michael_dorfman 15y ago

I'm not thrilled about the name. First, it seems pretty disrespectful to use religious imagery, etc., for a commercial product, especially if you are not a practitioner of said religion. This is doubly worrisome by the text that seems to suggest that "zen" (or, rather, Zen) and "Buddhism" are interchangeable concepts. They're not. Second, if you are a practitioner, you're undoubtedly aware of the large role that lists play in Buddhism-- which means that it's a bit deceptive to have a product named "Buddhalists" (or Buddalists-- see below) and not have the product based on the traditional Buddhist conception of lists. Third: you don't even get the spelling straight on your own headline. That's scary.

armandososa 15y ago
And if you are a practitioner of another religion you won't feel comfortable using this either.
ayanb 15y ago
I agree to this. The nomenclature and messaging seems pretty casual.
chanux 15y ago
I have to agree with you (I'm a Buddhist). Anyway, it doesn't make me feel any worse than what I'd feel of jesuslist or something. The problem is, not many happen to think like me. Some people get very much offended. So the name won't go well with any serious app.
bfe 15y ago
If they make as many coding errors as spelling errors, I'll stick with my current list app.
unicornporn 15y ago
I'm not thrilled either. Sorry if I come around as harsh, but that "bring zen to your life for $10 a month" rhetoric feels quite cheap (admittedly speaking as a zazen practitioner).

anghyflawn 15y ago

Would I be far off the mark if I thought this is something like org-mode without the Emacs? (And yes, you should get the title right.)

c1sc0 15y ago

This is in no way a criticism of the actual app, but has building a to-do list become our day's "writing your own text editor"? Fascinating how a new one seems to pop up every day.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
wingerlang 15y ago
I think it is because of the fact that lists usually are super individual and must fit someones workflow. I actually wrote my own the other day. I have tested a LOT of websites and apps but everything seems too cluttered. So I made my own with these points in mind: - MINIMAL - Minimal functions. OR they should be invisible until needed. (arrows to the right on the site) + (statistics icon with hover on right to the top) - Multiple lists (categories) on ONE page so that they does not disappear. - Chrome extension for adding things - BONUS: Some kind of achievment system would be nice for keeping you motivated. Points for completing and -points for failing to-dos. Works for me, others might not like it. http://wingerlang.se/demo/ http://wingerlang.se/demo/ Links on bottom to category-view (wich is like "archive" and not like the to-do list) things can be moved around by clicking the arrow-link

arondeparon 15y ago

Apart from having a name and style that tries to invoke 'zenlike' feelings, what does the app actually do that makes it stand out? There are 1000+1 todo apps, many of which focussing on the 'less is more' principle. I don't see how this app is different, apart from charging a really soothing $10 per month....

va1en0k 15y ago

seems like an excessively designed analog of http://workflowy.com/ http://workflowy.com/, which is awesome and simple, and arguably more Zen

cowboyhero 15y ago

I like the simplicity of this. Like headsclouds, I couldn't figure out at first how to make "sub" items. Due to old habits, I kept trying to hit "tab" to indent a new item. Now for the hard part. In a previous career, I used to spend a lot of time with marketers. They always used to talk about "share of wallet" and the phrase stuck with me. In short: Unless someone is loose with their cash, there's a limited amount of money they're going to want to spend on online subscriptions (of any kind). Given that your app is actually more expensive than a month of Netflix or Amazon Prime, how do you justify the price? Note: I'm not saying you need to lower your price, just that you need to be more explicit about the value proposition. Especially because stuff like Tadalist and Workflowy are free or freemium offerings.

litmus 15y ago

hmm...back blaze charges 5 dollars a month to back up my computer with unlimited storage. you're charging 10 dollars a month for unlimited nested strings. the computer says..........no. silliness aside, maybe try a forum for busy execs. Might get better input & target customers.

skrebbel 15y ago

I think 10$ for an obvious weekend hack is quite a lot.

zokiboy 15y ago
It's even more expensive than OmniFocus - $79 for life, and this is $120 for a year.
patio11 15y ago
obvious weekend hack But people will pay $300 for a lawyer writing a letter which says, attached to the letter, "This took forty eight minutes to write." And this is why you should never, never take pricing advice on HN. [Edit: My conclusion here was excessively strong. Working on a blog post now, because I feel the need to vent a little about this. $10 is not a lot of money. Customers do not pay for how much you appeared to have worked. Argh.]
- skrebbel 15y ago
  The lawyer charges you once. Also, the lawyer charges you alone. Also, lawyers are overpriced, but that's another story.
  - skrebbel 15y ago
    Genuinely wondering how my pointing out that monthly subscription fees aren't one-time service fees deserves me downvotes?
- hsmyers 15y ago
  Only people with money think that 10.00 is not a lot of money. 120.00 a year could be a significant chunk of the target's disposable funds. If don't have money then it might as well be 400.00. On the other hand, 12.00 or 24.00 a year might well be 'not a lot of money'---perception here is based on content of wallet, not your marketing notions. Review history of Borland's C/C++ compiler versus Microsoft's---yes Microsoft won the war, but not without making Borland enormously successful.

Robin_Message 15y ago

Works quite nicely, I like it. One small suggestion -- if I push right inside the text box, and I've just come from pushing left, then go back to that item. For example, say I'm looking at the shopping list in your demo. I'm on "get veggies". I want to add tomato, but I can't remember if I had a "get fruits" category. So I push left, glance down, see that I don't and decide to put tomato into veggies anyway. Then I push right and nothing happens. Instead, where possible, right should move me back, so I can go left-right and be back where I started. Bonus points for left-left-left-right-right-right working :)

dadads 15y ago

Nice app and all, but I don't see myself paying $10 for something I could easily replicate in a day. Not trying to be mean or anything, but perhaps I'm not the target market here.

neilbowers 15y ago

(1) you've spelled the product name two different ways in the first 3 lines. (2) why would I pay $10/month for this when checkvist does this and more for $0/month? (3) the help overlay is nice. (4) interaction on lists not intuitive.

Maro 15y ago

How do you want to compete with Evernote? It's available as a web app, native apps for iOS, MacOS, Windows (all my platforms, also Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry), and it works great on all platforms. It syncs so I have native access everywhere. It supports some minimal formatting, but doesn't get in the way. It works great for managing multiple notes, kind of like an Inbox. Notes are private be default, but I can share them with people or make them public. Oh, and Evernote is free. So, what problem are you solving for $10 that Evernote doesn't solve much better for free? Also, Evernote has $95M funding, so their velocity is probably 100x yours. PS: This is a harsh comment, but the intention is constructive. If you don't have good answers to these questions, then it's back to the drawing board!

madaerodog 15y ago

My 2 cents : Google Tasks blows this out of the water.

zokiboy 15y ago

Putting name and price aside I don't like deep nesting approach for lists. I tend to have too many levels and it's cumbersome to click so many times. I like to have an option to see all my tasks at same level and get nice overview of everything I want to do.

nikcub 15y ago

nice that you are using spine - it is a great little framework