4 ms·

What did "marriage rights" actually change? I know taxes changed, and I assume there were some property implications beyond just sticking it to bigoted Christi

by mbg721 5y ago

What did "marriage rights" actually change? I know taxes changed, and I assume there were some property implications beyond just sticking it to bigoted Christians, but that last part seemed to be the major feature.

dralley 5y ago
>What did "marriage rights" actually change? I know taxes changed, and I assume there were some property implications beyond just sticking it to bigoted Christians, but that last part seemed to be the major feature. If your "partner" is dying in the hospital, you don't have a legal right to be allowed to see them. If your "spouse" is dying in the hospital, you do. That's one example.
- mbg721 5y ago
  Okay, that's a good concrete example.
  - BrendanEich 5y ago
    It's also false. California had Domestic Partnership law that, as amended by 2008, afforded domestic partnerships the same rights and responsibilities as marriages under state law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_Califo... I'm assuming dralley didn't know (is not lying), so my advice is to check incendiary claims and avoid parroting sources you have not checked. HTH!
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      So if they were pretty much the same thing already, why deny them the term "marriage"? Comes off as nothing more than jealous spite. Certainly not what one would call a very Christian attitude.
kergonath 5y ago
This is weird. Why would one class of people need to justify having the same rights as another class of people? You’ve got it wrong: there needs to be a reason for them not to have that right.
- mbg721 5y ago
  Societies for millennia have had intuition about what men and women are, and have always defined marriage to reflect that. If we're suddenly enlightened because we've unshackled reproduction from sex and anyone can have a married relationship with anyone else, that is new, that's not some ancient natural right.
  - krapp 5y ago
    Sex has been unshackled from reproduction for far, far longer than marriage has even been a concept, and in many ancient cultures same sex relationships were perfectly normal[0]. The axis of "heterosexuality" and "homosexuality" itself is no older than the 20th century, and even the concept of monogamy is relatively new as far as Abrahamic religious tradition goes. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions
    - mbg721 5y ago
      Non-conventional sex isn't new, but making sure marriage is defined in such a way to include it is new, or at least wasn't universal.
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        One thing that surprises me about the discussion of non-hetero marriage is how often it's about the sex. Sure, sex is an integral part of marriage but it's not the most important one, by far. It's much more about love and sharing life IMO. I don't understand why what happens in a private bedroom between consenting adults is such a problem.
      - 5y ago
GekkePrutser 5y ago
There was also a case in Ireland where the biological mother in a gay couple died and her partner wasn't allowed to keep their child. It was very sad. Not sure if this applied to the US too though. It was in the discussion around the referendum on gay marriage which passed.

by mbg721 5y ago

dralley 5y ago

>What did "marriage rights" actually change? I know taxes changed, and I assume there were some property implications beyond just sticking it to bigoted Christians, but that last part seemed to be the major feature. If your "partner" is dying in the hospital, you don't have a legal right to be allowed to see them. If your "spouse" is dying in the hospital, you do. That's one example.

mbg721 5y ago
Okay, that's a good concrete example.
- BrendanEich 5y ago
  It's also false. California had Domestic Partnership law that, as amended by 2008, afforded domestic partnerships the same rights and responsibilities as marriages under state law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_Califo... I'm assuming dralley didn't know (is not lying), so my advice is to check incendiary claims and avoid parroting sources you have not checked. HTH!
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    So if they were pretty much the same thing already, why deny them the term "marriage"? Comes off as nothing more than jealous spite. Certainly not what one would call a very Christian attitude.

kergonath 5y ago

This is weird. Why would one class of people need to justify having the same rights as another class of people? You’ve got it wrong: there needs to be a reason for them not to have that right.

mbg721 5y ago
Societies for millennia have had intuition about what men and women are, and have always defined marriage to reflect that. If we're suddenly enlightened because we've unshackled reproduction from sex and anyone can have a married relationship with anyone else, that is new, that's not some ancient natural right.
- krapp 5y ago
  Sex has been unshackled from reproduction for far, far longer than marriage has even been a concept, and in many ancient cultures same sex relationships were perfectly normal[0]. The axis of "heterosexuality" and "homosexuality" itself is no older than the 20th century, and even the concept of monogamy is relatively new as far as Abrahamic religious tradition goes. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions
  - mbg721 5y ago
    Non-conventional sex isn't new, but making sure marriage is defined in such a way to include it is new, or at least wasn't universal.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      One thing that surprises me about the discussion of non-hetero marriage is how often it's about the sex. Sure, sex is an integral part of marriage but it's not the most important one, by far. It's much more about love and sharing life IMO. I don't understand why what happens in a private bedroom between consenting adults is such a problem.
    - 5y ago

GekkePrutser 5y ago

There was also a case in Ireland where the biological mother in a gay couple died and her partner wasn't allowed to keep their child. It was very sad. Not sure if this applied to the US too though. It was in the discussion around the referendum on gay marriage which passed.