6 ms·

I visited SanFran a couple of years ago, and this reminded me of a homeless guy, in his late 60s I imagine, that I saw at a fast food chain. So I was I think a

by pen2l 5y ago

I visited SanFran a couple of years ago, and this reminded me of a homeless guy, in his late 60s I imagine, that I saw at a fast food chain. So I was I think at in-and-out, and a homeless guy was going through the garbage bin to find food. When I came over to dump my stuff in the bin, he was immediately considerate and stepped aside so I could dump the covers and napkins, whilst making sibilant sounds and keeping his gaze down in a strangely submissive manner. And then the staff came over and tried to make him leave the place. I recall he said no actual word but put a mild challenge with more sibilant sounds but eventually left. And I remember thinking, well, he smelled and I tried to avoid physical contact, but was there really a need to make him leave, and take away what small dignity the world had assigned him? Clearly mentally off, I don't know, but trying to survive in the way that he can. But I find myself thinking again what I thought then -- there, but for the grace of god go I

yann2 5y ago
Offtopic but I feel I must add, sibilant sounds are an effective way to get boring meetings to end quick.
- mc32 5y ago
  They are also tropes in old movies and cartoons when someone wants to pretend “there is nothing to see here, I’m just whistling in the wind… minding my own business” maybe throw in some foot shuffling.
throw1234651234 5y ago
Pro-tip on charity - see someone eating out of the trash? They could probably actually use your money. Much more effective than giving it to panhandlers.
- pbourke 5y ago
  Or at least a meal from the restaurant.
  - throw1234651234 5y ago
    Yea, there is that aspect of it. Ideally, I will go buy them a meal, so they can't use the money for other things. I personally don't indulge in "other things", but I don't know how concerned I am about them using the money for that either. I think it's very, very difficult for someone digging through trash to get their life together, so if they indulge, they indulge. Note that it's not a comment on their character or anything of the sort, just the sheer number of things needed to re-adjust in society from zero, with zero real help. Another point is that in most countries outside of the US, panhandlers are either "working for themselves" and make decent money, perhaps better than at a low-end job while having proper living arrangements, etc (and thus "rob" the true poor from the donation). It can also be worse, with situations where panhandlers are actually curated by an organizer who pays them a salary and takes a profit. The latter schemes are also mixed up in exploitation. Now that I type it all out, I am realizing that buying a meal also prevents the second scenario too. Good stuff.
    - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
      I had a guy ask for $5 to buy cigarettes and beer. I gave it to him. Too often, I can't buy honesty at any price.
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      From a logical point of view from a resource management perspective you giving them money is better and allows them to get more bang from that gift. You buy a McD combo drop it off and feel good. They have to eat it right away. There stomach will not be able to handle it all. They cannot save split the food. If you give them money they could still dumpster dive for food, keep the money and buy other things they need like (maxi pads, or 1 food bar every morning for a week or a stamp to mail someone or quarters to make a call). They can buy a smaller meal or food in a form that will allow them to space it out over time. Most importantly they can buy the type of food that works best from them. 5 dollars could have multiplier effect. A pre-purchased fast food meal will leaving the homeless person craving for days. The homeless are drinking/doing drugs less than homed people drinking/doing drugs because they don't have the resources. I would be concerned with salaried beggers.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  They're looking for recyclables (for deposit refunds), and other things of value.
  - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
    I have been wondering how I'd feel if someone cleaned out our recycle bins, before the truck picks them up. Our house alone goes thru a lot of aluminum.
    - nobodyandproud 5y ago
      In NYC a few years back, old women and men (elderly, often Chinese?) would regularly go through the trash refuse bins and collect cans and bottles. It was apparently a way to feel useful and busy while also earning some money. One of my passing thoughts is that recycling could be a way to keep people occupied and also perform an extremely useful service. That is, expand on this. The cynic in me, however, feels that this would turn into a dystopian nightmare rather quickly.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        In NL we used to have door-to-door collectors of metals, paper, vegetable matter ('schillenboer') and glass. Then it all got industrialized and a couple of large companies got exclusivity from the municipalities. Who now have to supply them with mandatory minimums in tonnage or face steep contractually agreed upon fines. And here we are trying hard to reduce the amount of waste. It's such a complete fuck-up. Every yard now looks like a miniature recycling center, with up to five containers in some municipalities (we only have four, but they take up a lot of space and the smell is incredible). (the categories we have are 'remainder','plastic','vegetable/green','paper', and they are emptied irregularly and have a strange mix of capacities, in total there is about 1000 liters of volume across those four containers, and they take up 2 square meters).
kelp 5y ago
Living in one of the worse parts of San Francisco, for the past few years (west SOMA), I can say that people going through your trash is quite a nuisance. You'll put your trash out for pickup day, and a significant portion of the time, someone will come and go through it. And often as they are going through it, they will just throw random things on the ground. So our little side street kind of has a constant layer of trash. The city does employ people to come through and pick it up, and they do that regularly, but they would have to do it daily to really keep the street clean. I think they come more like weekly. Tangentially, I was walking my dog this morning, and had to ensure she didn't step on the used hypodermic needle on the sidewalk. Nothing covering the needle. This happens all the time. Right now they are at least 3 tents on my small side street block. For businesses, like if you were at an In-n-out you must have been at Fishermans wharf, that's the only one in SF. They regularly have to ask people to leave who are acting in various disruptive ways, and bothering their customers. A few years back, I was sitting at a bar in SF, that had outdoor tables. I think I was on a first (and only) date. I guy walked up, took my dates glass of white wine, drank the whole thing down, and then said "I'm an alcoholic". And then just stood there looking at us. (Also as someone who's lived in San Francisco for years, I just can't help but be triggered when someone says San Fran.)
- throw1234651234 5y ago
  Yeaaaa, but you guys have SEALS and electric skooters that tell you where the bad areas of the city are (where you can't leave your scoot). It's good times all around. And that windy road thingy.
- lisper 5y ago
  > people going through your trash is quite a nuisance. Sure, but who is ultimately responsible for this, the people going through the trash, or the people who have structured our society in such a way that there are people who think their best option in life is to scavenge other people's trash? Because I'm pretty sure that the people going through the trash would stop in an instant if they were offered a better alternative.
  - noasaservice 5y ago
lisper 5y ago
> there, but for the grace of god go I You might be interested in this: https://graceofgodmovie.com/ https://graceofgodmovie.com/ [Disclosure: that is my movie.]
- SmkyMt 5y ago
  I look forward to viewing it this evening. And FWIW: It could motivate me to _buy_ ($20) rather than _rent ($4) [from Amazon] if I knew the respective portions that go to (your) production company rather than just to Amazon.
  - julianh95 5y ago
    +1 on this. I’d much rather spend more money if I knew it directly supported the creator/maker/etc. I often do this with my purchases where I look for their direct website and purchase from there.
  - lisper 5y ago
    Yes, I get a cut of every sale and rental, thought I don't recall exactly how much. It's a very small income stream and I don't really need the money. So much as I appreciate the gesture, you should feel free to rent. Frankly, a good review is worth much more to me than a sale.
elcano 5y ago
I would assume that you would have to very mentally stable to resist all that humiliation without going nuts. I have a friend that wasn't homeless, but all unemployment money was used on rent required to keep his shared custody (without an apartment to house the kids, you cannot have custody). He always was clean and used good clothes, but he made the line with homeless people to get free food daily. Otherwise he wouldn't have money to eat. He said that the worst part of all was the look from voluntary women that were working on the food delivery organization. Each woman reacts differently to men. But he says that this is completely different. The look is like if he wasn't even a man - it's like they are feeding a lesser species. He says that he have never experienced the same reaction from women in other contexts, and that it hurts. It steals away all feeling of manliness. Luckily he got out of that situation many years ago.
- cgio 5y ago
  This is a very interesting observation but also one that could support a few different interpretations. Is it that women enjoy at last a social circumstance where they are superior to men? Or is it men realising the brunt of their experience and the extent of their fall when receiving help from women? I would think it’s mostly the latter, given the volunteer women or men I know all have dedicated significant part of their lives to helping people, not men or women or children or elders specifically.
- leppr 5y ago
  > He always was clean and used good clothes An alternative explanation could be that the women thought he was abusing the service to get free food even if he didn't need it, and thus put on some faces that he misinterpreted.
  - petre 5y ago
    As if if someone has the means they would totally go out and eat with the homeless just to 'abuse the service' and get free food. Right.
    - zenexer 5y ago
rkk3 5y ago
> I remember thinking, well, he smelled and I tried to avoid physical contact, but was there really a need to make him leave A homeless person was going through the garbage in the middle of a fast food restaurant... yeah, I assume that would be off-putting to customers & detrimental to their business.
- sushid 5y ago
  Yeah I really don't understand this line of thinking. I imagine most would sheepishly agree that they would also do the same thing if it were their restaurant.

by pen2l 5y ago

yann2 5y ago

Offtopic but I feel I must add, sibilant sounds are an effective way to get boring meetings to end quick.

mc32 5y ago
They are also tropes in old movies and cartoons when someone wants to pretend “there is nothing to see here, I’m just whistling in the wind… minding my own business” maybe throw in some foot shuffling.

throw1234651234 5y ago

Pro-tip on charity - see someone eating out of the trash? They could probably actually use your money. Much more effective than giving it to panhandlers.

pbourke 5y ago
Or at least a meal from the restaurant.
- throw1234651234 5y ago
  Yea, there is that aspect of it. Ideally, I will go buy them a meal, so they can't use the money for other things. I personally don't indulge in "other things", but I don't know how concerned I am about them using the money for that either. I think it's very, very difficult for someone digging through trash to get their life together, so if they indulge, they indulge. Note that it's not a comment on their character or anything of the sort, just the sheer number of things needed to re-adjust in society from zero, with zero real help. Another point is that in most countries outside of the US, panhandlers are either "working for themselves" and make decent money, perhaps better than at a low-end job while having proper living arrangements, etc (and thus "rob" the true poor from the donation). It can also be worse, with situations where panhandlers are actually curated by an organizer who pays them a salary and takes a profit. The latter schemes are also mixed up in exploitation. Now that I type it all out, I am realizing that buying a meal also prevents the second scenario too. Good stuff.
  - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
    I had a guy ask for $5 to buy cigarettes and beer. I gave it to him. Too often, I can't buy honesty at any price.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    From a logical point of view from a resource management perspective you giving them money is better and allows them to get more bang from that gift. You buy a McD combo drop it off and feel good. They have to eat it right away. There stomach will not be able to handle it all. They cannot save split the food. If you give them money they could still dumpster dive for food, keep the money and buy other things they need like (maxi pads, or 1 food bar every morning for a week or a stamp to mail someone or quarters to make a call). They can buy a smaller meal or food in a form that will allow them to space it out over time. Most importantly they can buy the type of food that works best from them. 5 dollars could have multiplier effect. A pre-purchased fast food meal will leaving the homeless person craving for days. The homeless are drinking/doing drugs less than homed people drinking/doing drugs because they don't have the resources. I would be concerned with salaried beggers.
bbarnett 5y ago
They're looking for recyclables (for deposit refunds), and other things of value.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  I have been wondering how I'd feel if someone cleaned out our recycle bins, before the truck picks them up. Our house alone goes thru a lot of aluminum.
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    In NYC a few years back, old women and men (elderly, often Chinese?) would regularly go through the trash refuse bins and collect cans and bottles. It was apparently a way to feel useful and busy while also earning some money. One of my passing thoughts is that recycling could be a way to keep people occupied and also perform an extremely useful service. That is, expand on this. The cynic in me, however, feels that this would turn into a dystopian nightmare rather quickly.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      In NL we used to have door-to-door collectors of metals, paper, vegetable matter ('schillenboer') and glass. Then it all got industrialized and a couple of large companies got exclusivity from the municipalities. Who now have to supply them with mandatory minimums in tonnage or face steep contractually agreed upon fines. And here we are trying hard to reduce the amount of waste. It's such a complete fuck-up. Every yard now looks like a miniature recycling center, with up to five containers in some municipalities (we only have four, but they take up a lot of space and the smell is incredible). (the categories we have are 'remainder','plastic','vegetable/green','paper', and they are emptied irregularly and have a strange mix of capacities, in total there is about 1000 liters of volume across those four containers, and they take up 2 square meters).

kelp 5y ago

Living in one of the worse parts of San Francisco, for the past few years (west SOMA), I can say that people going through your trash is quite a nuisance. You'll put your trash out for pickup day, and a significant portion of the time, someone will come and go through it. And often as they are going through it, they will just throw random things on the ground. So our little side street kind of has a constant layer of trash. The city does employ people to come through and pick it up, and they do that regularly, but they would have to do it daily to really keep the street clean. I think they come more like weekly. Tangentially, I was walking my dog this morning, and had to ensure she didn't step on the used hypodermic needle on the sidewalk. Nothing covering the needle. This happens all the time. Right now they are at least 3 tents on my small side street block. For businesses, like if you were at an In-n-out you must have been at Fishermans wharf, that's the only one in SF. They regularly have to ask people to leave who are acting in various disruptive ways, and bothering their customers. A few years back, I was sitting at a bar in SF, that had outdoor tables. I think I was on a first (and only) date. I guy walked up, took my dates glass of white wine, drank the whole thing down, and then said "I'm an alcoholic". And then just stood there looking at us. (Also as someone who's lived in San Francisco for years, I just can't help but be triggered when someone says San Fran.)

throw1234651234 5y ago
Yeaaaa, but you guys have SEALS and electric skooters that tell you where the bad areas of the city are (where you can't leave your scoot). It's good times all around. And that windy road thingy.
lisper 5y ago
> people going through your trash is quite a nuisance. Sure, but who is ultimately responsible for this, the people going through the trash, or the people who have structured our society in such a way that there are people who think their best option in life is to scavenge other people's trash? Because I'm pretty sure that the people going through the trash would stop in an instant if they were offered a better alternative.
- noasaservice 5y ago

lisper 5y ago

> there, but for the grace of god go I You might be interested in this: https://graceofgodmovie.com/ https://graceofgodmovie.com/ [Disclosure: that is my movie.]

SmkyMt 5y ago
I look forward to viewing it this evening. And FWIW: It could motivate me to _buy_ ($20) rather than _rent ($4) [from Amazon] if I knew the respective portions that go to (your) production company rather than just to Amazon.
- julianh95 5y ago
  +1 on this. I’d much rather spend more money if I knew it directly supported the creator/maker/etc. I often do this with my purchases where I look for their direct website and purchase from there.
- lisper 5y ago
  Yes, I get a cut of every sale and rental, thought I don't recall exactly how much. It's a very small income stream and I don't really need the money. So much as I appreciate the gesture, you should feel free to rent. Frankly, a good review is worth much more to me than a sale.

elcano 5y ago

I would assume that you would have to very mentally stable to resist all that humiliation without going nuts. I have a friend that wasn't homeless, but all unemployment money was used on rent required to keep his shared custody (without an apartment to house the kids, you cannot have custody). He always was clean and used good clothes, but he made the line with homeless people to get free food daily. Otherwise he wouldn't have money to eat. He said that the worst part of all was the look from voluntary women that were working on the food delivery organization. Each woman reacts differently to men. But he says that this is completely different. The look is like if he wasn't even a man - it's like they are feeding a lesser species. He says that he have never experienced the same reaction from women in other contexts, and that it hurts. It steals away all feeling of manliness. Luckily he got out of that situation many years ago.

cgio 5y ago
This is a very interesting observation but also one that could support a few different interpretations. Is it that women enjoy at last a social circumstance where they are superior to men? Or is it men realising the brunt of their experience and the extent of their fall when receiving help from women? I would think it’s mostly the latter, given the volunteer women or men I know all have dedicated significant part of their lives to helping people, not men or women or children or elders specifically.
leppr 5y ago
> He always was clean and used good clothes An alternative explanation could be that the women thought he was abusing the service to get free food even if he didn't need it, and thus put on some faces that he misinterpreted.
- petre 5y ago
  As if if someone has the means they would totally go out and eat with the homeless just to 'abuse the service' and get free food. Right.
  - zenexer 5y ago

rkk3 5y ago

> I remember thinking, well, he smelled and I tried to avoid physical contact, but was there really a need to make him leave A homeless person was going through the garbage in the middle of a fast food restaurant... yeah, I assume that would be off-putting to customers & detrimental to their business.

sushid 5y ago
Yeah I really don't understand this line of thinking. I imagine most would sheepishly agree that they would also do the same thing if it were their restaurant.