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> If your database hits your cost limit, do you stop serving requests? Delete the data? To what extent do you want 'cost protection' for resources you signed up

> If your database hits your cost limit, do you stop serving requests? Delete the data? To what extent do you want 'cost protection' for resources you signed up for? Sounds like a reasonable configurable option rather than “you shouldn’t be able to choose at all”.

eropple 5y ago
I am sympathetic to the concern about cost overages--I've hit them in AWS before--but given the way that developers and managers think about SaaS products (generally, not just cloud stuff), I tend to think that even if you required them to click three checkboxes and sign their name in blood, the first time you vaporized somebody's production database because they hit their overages and didn't think it would ever happen would be apocalyptic. And the second, and the third. And you're at fault, not the customer, in the public square. By comparison, chasing off "cost conscious" (read: relentlessly cheap--and I note that in my personal life I'm one of these, no shade being thrown here) users is probably better for them overall.
- whoknew1122 5y ago
  Work in AWS Premium Support. This is 100% how it goes. Take KMS keys for example. You can't outright delete a KMS master key; you have to schedule it for deletion. The shortest period you can schedule for deletion is 7 days (default 30). Once the key is deleted, all encrypted data is orphaned. Guess who gets blamed for deleted keys? HINT: It's not the customer.
  - nlitened 5y ago
    I am sorry, I might be missing something, but I call bullshit. How much does it cost for Amazon to store several bytes that make a key? 5 cents per decade? “Yeah, so uhm, you hit zero, so we deleted all your keys in an irrecoverable way, sorry not sorry” — is not a circuit breaker. Make all services inaccessible to public and store the data safely until customer tops up their balance. That’s how VPSes have worked forever. I don’t argue that “cheapo” clients are worth retaining for AWS, clearly they are not. But this kind of hypocrisy really triggers me. Edit: a helpful person below suggested I misunderstood the parent, and I now I think I did.
    - supaslide 5y ago
      I'm pretty sure they meant that the customer schedules it for deletion and then blames AWS when they can't access their encrypted data.
      - nlitened 5y ago
        Oh, in this case I misunderstood what the parent meant, and I replied to a wrong interpretation of their words. Thank you for the clarification.
    - eropple 5y ago
      AWS doesn't retain anything for you unless you tell them to, and when you tell them to delete something (as in the example relayed by the person you are replying to), they delete it as best as they are able. That's part of the value proposition: when you delete the thing, it goes away. Why would they start now for clients who want their bills to be in the tens of dollars (when if you really care you can do it yourself off of billing alerts[0])? Going to be real: you aren't "triggered", which is actually a real thing out there that you demean with this usage of the term. You're just not the target market and you're salty that it's more complex than you think it is. [0]: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/monitoring/monitor_estimated_charges_with_cloudwatch.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/monitori...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - eropple 5y ago
    I used to run an AWS consultancy, which is how I know. ;) More than once I had a customer go "well support won't help me, how can I get my data back?". And I had to tell them "well, support isn't just not helping you for kicks, you know?".

eropple 5y ago

I am sympathetic to the concern about cost overages--I've hit them in AWS before--but given the way that developers and managers think about SaaS products (generally, not just cloud stuff), I tend to think that even if you required them to click three checkboxes and sign their name in blood, the first time you vaporized somebody's production database because they hit their overages and didn't think it would ever happen would be apocalyptic. And the second, and the third. And you're at fault, not the customer, in the public square. By comparison, chasing off "cost conscious" (read: relentlessly cheap--and I note that in my personal life I'm one of these, no shade being thrown here) users is probably better for them overall.

whoknew1122 5y ago
Work in AWS Premium Support. This is 100% how it goes. Take KMS keys for example. You can't outright delete a KMS master key; you have to schedule it for deletion. The shortest period you can schedule for deletion is 7 days (default 30). Once the key is deleted, all encrypted data is orphaned. Guess who gets blamed for deleted keys? HINT: It's not the customer.
- nlitened 5y ago
  I am sorry, I might be missing something, but I call bullshit. How much does it cost for Amazon to store several bytes that make a key? 5 cents per decade? “Yeah, so uhm, you hit zero, so we deleted all your keys in an irrecoverable way, sorry not sorry” — is not a circuit breaker. Make all services inaccessible to public and store the data safely until customer tops up their balance. That’s how VPSes have worked forever. I don’t argue that “cheapo” clients are worth retaining for AWS, clearly they are not. But this kind of hypocrisy really triggers me. Edit: a helpful person below suggested I misunderstood the parent, and I now I think I did.
  - supaslide 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure they meant that the customer schedules it for deletion and then blames AWS when they can't access their encrypted data.
    - nlitened 5y ago
      Oh, in this case I misunderstood what the parent meant, and I replied to a wrong interpretation of their words. Thank you for the clarification.
  - eropple 5y ago
    AWS doesn't retain anything for you unless you tell them to, and when you tell them to delete something (as in the example relayed by the person you are replying to), they delete it as best as they are able. That's part of the value proposition: when you delete the thing, it goes away. Why would they start now for clients who want their bills to be in the tens of dollars (when if you really care you can do it yourself off of billing alerts[0])? Going to be real: you aren't "triggered", which is actually a real thing out there that you demean with this usage of the term. You're just not the target market and you're salty that it's more complex than you think it is. [0]: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/monitoring/monitor_estimated_charges_with_cloudwatch.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/monitori...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- eropple 5y ago
  I used to run an AWS consultancy, which is how I know. ;) More than once I had a customer go "well support won't help me, how can I get my data back?". And I had to tell them "well, support isn't just not helping you for kicks, you know?".