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> standard American diet, which is practically vegetarian already Not by any reasonable definition. Americans consume more meat per capita than any nation on e

> standard American diet, which is practically vegetarian already Not by any reasonable definition. Americans consume more meat per capita than any nation on earth. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_cons...) I'm guessing you're basing that statement on the article you shared showing that 70% of calories consumed by Americans come from plant-based sources. 1. I believe your calorie-percentage data points more to the high amount sugar and corn syrup in the standard American diet. Those two plant-based, calorie-dense ingredients skew the data. A McDonald's chicken nugget value meal with a regular Coke has a high number of plant-based calories due to the Coke, but it is pretty far from being a vegetarian meal. 2. Calling 70% vegetarian "practically vegetarian" really stretches the definitions of both words. Most Americans consume meat with > 2 meals per day.

wyager 5y ago
Sweeteners are about 15% of calories for Americans which sort of undercuts your idea that it’s all about corn syrup. Your example of a single hypothetical meal is irrelevant - the data is clear that Americans are practically vegetarian, in aggregate. 70% plants is absolutely “practically vegetarian” compared to, say, a diet consistent with the pre-agricultural evolutionary environment of most Americans. Personally, in excess of 90% of my caloric intake comes from animals (and I am visibly and medically healthier than 95% of Americans, even health-focused herbivores, as are people I know who eat similarly).
- Retric 5y ago
  Preindustrial diets where mostly plant based in aggregate. Even if you look before agriculture estimates place typical hunter gatherers at about 65% plant based with extreme variation. Which is the same ratio as Americans eat when you exclude those sweeteners. Longer term surviving examples tended to have a higher meat based ratio largely because they lived on islands or in more marginal areas. However, looking at land area and population density estimates adjusts the ratio significantly. Some of this needs to be inferred from things like Native American tribal densities and is further confused as diseases decimated native populations throwing off those density estimates. Still the idea of our ancestors eating a primarily meat based diet seems to be a mistake.
  - wyager 5y ago
    > Preindustrial diets where mostly plant based in aggregate. You’re telling me my snow-bound ancestors were eating vegetables in the dead of winter, prior to the advent of agriculture?
    - Retric 5y ago
      Several issues with that statement, we largely didn’t have snow bound ancestors largely because survival was significantly more difficult in cold areas. Historic populations also tended to lose a lot of weight in winters due to lack of food. On top of this mercator projections seriously distort people perceptions of how much land is near the equator vs the north. Africa is 11.73 million square miles with minimal snowfall outside of a few mountains, Europe is 3.9 million square miles. Combine that with warmer areas providing more food and it’s likely the majority of early modern humans never experienced significant snowfall. This is complicated by ice ages, but people didn’t spend a lot of time on on near glaciers until very recently. Lack of food and warmth where huge issue before relatively advanced though still Stone Age technology. Another way of thinking about this is to compare animal biomass per square mile in say Mongolia with Ghana.

wyager 5y ago

Sweeteners are about 15% of calories for Americans which sort of undercuts your idea that it’s all about corn syrup. Your example of a single hypothetical meal is irrelevant - the data is clear that Americans are practically vegetarian, in aggregate. 70% plants is absolutely “practically vegetarian” compared to, say, a diet consistent with the pre-agricultural evolutionary environment of most Americans. Personally, in excess of 90% of my caloric intake comes from animals (and I am visibly and medically healthier than 95% of Americans, even health-focused herbivores, as are people I know who eat similarly).

Retric 5y ago
Preindustrial diets where mostly plant based in aggregate. Even if you look before agriculture estimates place typical hunter gatherers at about 65% plant based with extreme variation. Which is the same ratio as Americans eat when you exclude those sweeteners. Longer term surviving examples tended to have a higher meat based ratio largely because they lived on islands or in more marginal areas. However, looking at land area and population density estimates adjusts the ratio significantly. Some of this needs to be inferred from things like Native American tribal densities and is further confused as diseases decimated native populations throwing off those density estimates. Still the idea of our ancestors eating a primarily meat based diet seems to be a mistake.
- wyager 5y ago
  > Preindustrial diets where mostly plant based in aggregate. You’re telling me my snow-bound ancestors were eating vegetables in the dead of winter, prior to the advent of agriculture?
  - Retric 5y ago
    Several issues with that statement, we largely didn’t have snow bound ancestors largely because survival was significantly more difficult in cold areas. Historic populations also tended to lose a lot of weight in winters due to lack of food. On top of this mercator projections seriously distort people perceptions of how much land is near the equator vs the north. Africa is 11.73 million square miles with minimal snowfall outside of a few mountains, Europe is 3.9 million square miles. Combine that with warmer areas providing more food and it’s likely the majority of early modern humans never experienced significant snowfall. This is complicated by ice ages, but people didn’t spend a lot of time on on near glaciers until very recently. Lack of food and warmth where huge issue before relatively advanced though still Stone Age technology. Another way of thinking about this is to compare animal biomass per square mile in say Mongolia with Ghana.