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> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift? We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instan

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift? We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. It took a while for people to transition to smartphones. Likewise getting an app up and running (in addition to their websites) took time for most businesses, and many probably waited before jumping on the band wagon I am sure everyone on HN moved quickly, but for the rest of the non-tech world I am sure they were doing just fine using their home computer for several more years. Even now, I still think "I'll wait and do this on a proper computer". It's not like apps have solved all computing-ills - many are total garbage with bugs and/or poorly thought through designs.

gsich 5y ago
What transition? Mobile is the lite version.
quaintdev 5y ago
> I am sure everyone on HN moved quickly, but for the rest of the non-tech world I am sure they were doing just fine using their home computer for several more years. A whole generation of people in India never used Computers as the western population did but large majority of same people directly moved to smartphones.
SiVal 5y ago
"I am sure everyone on HN moved [from computers to smartphones] quickly" I may be wrong, but I suspect you have that backwards. My guess is that at least older HNers were slower to shift from powerful but complex creation tools (computers) to easy consumption toys (smartphones) designed for consumers who found computers with files and folders just too darned complicated to use. Until good, portable mapping and good-enough cameras came along, I had no use for the "smart" features of a phone that were vastly inferior to the smart features of a real computer. For a long time, all I needed from a phone was the phone, which a small flip phone handled just fine. For anything "smart", I used the laptop & real camera in my backpack.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  I suspect everyone is wrong, but we're all subject to an availability bias. We assume that things we actively notice other people doing in public are representative of what everyone (or everyone in some category to which we've assigned that person) is doing. We don't notice all the people not engaging in that behavior because they're not noteworthy.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    ==We assume that things we actively notice other people doing in public are representative of what everyone (or everyone in some category to which we've assigned that person) is doing. We don't notice all the people not engaging in that behavior because they're not noteworthy.== Doesn’t this comment include it’s own set of biases?
    - playpause 5y ago
      Such as?
      - mumblemumble 5y ago
        I think that what they were getting at is that people noticing and commenting on things is more noticeable than people not doing so. Which would imply that there's a tendency to notice the noticing more than the not noticing, and, as a consequence, over-estimate how often people do it. It's a good point.
- simonh 5y ago
  I really dislike the 'consumption device' label, to me it seems lazily dismissive and missing the point. Smartphones, like phones, are primarily communication devices and communication is an active process. Texting/chat, email, audio calls, Twitter, Slack, Teams, Reddit, facebook, Discord, snapchat, etc, etc are all interactive communications media people use to create content for as well as 'consume'. Yes of course they're also used to watch videos and memes, read web sites, listen to podcasts and audiobooks. Sure, but active engagement is the killer feature for these things.
danso 5y ago
I feel you have this completely backwards. I think for the vast majority of non-tech users, the smartphone was their first everyday computer.
- neogodless 5y ago
  Anecdotally, that's not what I witnessed for family members 30+, but it has been the case for the younger generation (< 20).
- Jensson 5y ago
  A vast majority of young adults had their own everyday computers before smartphones. Today young adults gets smartphones instead, yes, but that didn't use to be true.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Kids use computers regularly at school from a very young age.
coldtea 5y ago
>We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. Oh, yes we did. Within 3 years (say 2007-2010) it was game over for feature-phones for the mass population, whereas the state of web APIs was still bad.
binkHN 5y ago
> Even now, I still think "I'll wait and do this on a proper computer". I'm routinely in the same boat, though it's less about the computer and more about not fighting with a tiny monitor. Most things built for mobile are "light" versions, as easily exposing all the bells and whistles on a 6" monitor would be a UI nightmare.
- neogodless 5y ago
  Tiny monitor, obnoxious keyboard. I haven't enjoyed typing on a phone since I reluctantly (that word took me 5 tries) set down my Lumia 920 Windows phone. Also my mouse is (insert big number) times more precise than my index finger.
- ryukafalz 5y ago
  I use a NexDock from time to time for this; some of my Galaxy S20's stock software scales pretty well to a full-size display as they expect you to use one. I don't think I'd make my phone my primary machine despite this until Linux phones are daily-driver ready for me though. The mobile OS is still too limiting. (That and while the NexDock is serviceable, its touchpad is awful. Good enough to use occasionally, but I wouldn't want to be stuck with it as my main machine.)
- burnt_toast 5y ago
  > Most things built for mobile are "light" versions. The good sites are :) The not so good ones "force" you to download an app with no alternative and require obtrusive permissions even though all you want to know is the answer to a quick question.
- dTal 5y ago
  You think it's the tiny monitor, but it's really the primitive UI designed for caveman-style point-and-grunt. I've been using a GPD Micro PC extensively over the past few months, which is equipped with a 6" screen, but also - critically - a touchpad and physical thumb keyboard. Guess what, I can do programming, CAD, image editing, the works - everything you can do on a larger machine. The Micro PC proves that we were sold a myth; that dumbed-down UIs were a necessary evil to enjoy computers in our pockets. They aren't. Pocket sized laptops work amazingly.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dylan604 5y ago
>Even now, I still think "I'll wait and do this on a proper computer". Of all the things that makes me prefer a proper computer, the shenanigans that devs do with various SDKs that are privacy invading pieces of shit have put me off of trusting any apps. Because of the all of the information that makes a mobile device so convenient to use is precisely the data that makes privacy invading data collection so desirable, it will be imposible to ever make it a serious compute platform for me. For me, the mobile platform is primarily used as the Bar Bet Settler 5000(TM).
S_A_P 5y ago
This. I can even give a concrete example of it. I noticed a charge to my bank account from Amazon and knew I didn’t buy anything. I went to the Amazon app and saw there were no orders. I thought maybe my prime renewed today so o tried to find that on mobile. I could not find it easily so I immediately went to my laptop and found it in 2 clicks via the Amazon website. To me the web is really great when there is enough screen real estate to keep information out of nested menus.
irrational 5y ago
> I am sure everyone on HN moved quickly This is me. For years my employer offered to get me a phone, but I declined. Why would I want a mobile phone. I don’t want people to get ahold of me whenever they want. But, then that first iPhone came out that was actually a full-fledged computer with phone capabilities on the side. I immediately jumped on that.

gsich 5y ago

What transition? Mobile is the lite version.

quaintdev 5y ago

> I am sure everyone on HN moved quickly, but for the rest of the non-tech world I am sure they were doing just fine using their home computer for several more years. A whole generation of people in India never used Computers as the western population did but large majority of same people directly moved to smartphones.

SiVal 5y ago

"I am sure everyone on HN moved [from computers to smartphones] quickly" I may be wrong, but I suspect you have that backwards. My guess is that at least older HNers were slower to shift from powerful but complex creation tools (computers) to easy consumption toys (smartphones) designed for consumers who found computers with files and folders just too darned complicated to use. Until good, portable mapping and good-enough cameras came along, I had no use for the "smart" features of a phone that were vastly inferior to the smart features of a real computer. For a long time, all I needed from a phone was the phone, which a small flip phone handled just fine. For anything "smart", I used the laptop & real camera in my backpack.

mumblemumble 5y ago
I suspect everyone is wrong, but we're all subject to an availability bias. We assume that things we actively notice other people doing in public are representative of what everyone (or everyone in some category to which we've assigned that person) is doing. We don't notice all the people not engaging in that behavior because they're not noteworthy.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  ==We assume that things we actively notice other people doing in public are representative of what everyone (or everyone in some category to which we've assigned that person) is doing. We don't notice all the people not engaging in that behavior because they're not noteworthy.== Doesn’t this comment include it’s own set of biases?
  - playpause 5y ago
    Such as?
    - mumblemumble 5y ago
      I think that what they were getting at is that people noticing and commenting on things is more noticeable than people not doing so. Which would imply that there's a tendency to notice the noticing more than the not noticing, and, as a consequence, over-estimate how often people do it. It's a good point.
simonh 5y ago
I really dislike the 'consumption device' label, to me it seems lazily dismissive and missing the point. Smartphones, like phones, are primarily communication devices and communication is an active process. Texting/chat, email, audio calls, Twitter, Slack, Teams, Reddit, facebook, Discord, snapchat, etc, etc are all interactive communications media people use to create content for as well as 'consume'. Yes of course they're also used to watch videos and memes, read web sites, listen to podcasts and audiobooks. Sure, but active engagement is the killer feature for these things.

danso 5y ago

I feel you have this completely backwards. I think for the vast majority of non-tech users, the smartphone was their first everyday computer.

neogodless 5y ago
Anecdotally, that's not what I witnessed for family members 30+, but it has been the case for the younger generation (< 20).
Jensson 5y ago
A vast majority of young adults had their own everyday computers before smartphones. Today young adults gets smartphones instead, yes, but that didn't use to be true.
heavyset_go 5y ago
Kids use computers regularly at school from a very young age.

coldtea 5y ago

>We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. Oh, yes we did. Within 3 years (say 2007-2010) it was game over for feature-phones for the mass population, whereas the state of web APIs was still bad.

binkHN 5y ago

> Even now, I still think "I'll wait and do this on a proper computer". I'm routinely in the same boat, though it's less about the computer and more about not fighting with a tiny monitor. Most things built for mobile are "light" versions, as easily exposing all the bells and whistles on a 6" monitor would be a UI nightmare.

neogodless 5y ago
Tiny monitor, obnoxious keyboard. I haven't enjoyed typing on a phone since I reluctantly (that word took me 5 tries) set down my Lumia 920 Windows phone. Also my mouse is (insert big number) times more precise than my index finger.
ryukafalz 5y ago
I use a NexDock from time to time for this; some of my Galaxy S20's stock software scales pretty well to a full-size display as they expect you to use one. I don't think I'd make my phone my primary machine despite this until Linux phones are daily-driver ready for me though. The mobile OS is still too limiting. (That and while the NexDock is serviceable, its touchpad is awful. Good enough to use occasionally, but I wouldn't want to be stuck with it as my main machine.)
burnt_toast 5y ago
> Most things built for mobile are "light" versions. The good sites are :) The not so good ones "force" you to download an app with no alternative and require obtrusive permissions even though all you want to know is the answer to a quick question.
dTal 5y ago
You think it's the tiny monitor, but it's really the primitive UI designed for caveman-style point-and-grunt. I've been using a GPD Micro PC extensively over the past few months, which is equipped with a 6" screen, but also - critically - a touchpad and physical thumb keyboard. Guess what, I can do programming, CAD, image editing, the works - everything you can do on a larger machine. The Micro PC proves that we were sold a myth; that dumbed-down UIs were a necessary evil to enjoy computers in our pockets. They aren't. Pocket sized laptops work amazingly.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dylan604 5y ago

>Even now, I still think "I'll wait and do this on a proper computer". Of all the things that makes me prefer a proper computer, the shenanigans that devs do with various SDKs that are privacy invading pieces of shit have put me off of trusting any apps. Because of the all of the information that makes a mobile device so convenient to use is precisely the data that makes privacy invading data collection so desirable, it will be imposible to ever make it a serious compute platform for me. For me, the mobile platform is primarily used as the Bar Bet Settler 5000(TM).

S_A_P 5y ago

This. I can even give a concrete example of it. I noticed a charge to my bank account from Amazon and knew I didn’t buy anything. I went to the Amazon app and saw there were no orders. I thought maybe my prime renewed today so o tried to find that on mobile. I could not find it easily so I immediately went to my laptop and found it in 2 clicks via the Amazon website. To me the web is really great when there is enough screen real estate to keep information out of nested menus.

irrational 5y ago

> I am sure everyone on HN moved quickly This is me. For years my employer offered to get me a phone, but I declined. Why would I want a mobile phone. I don’t want people to get ahold of me whenever they want. But, then that first iPhone came out that was actually a full-fledged computer with phone capabilities on the side. I immediately jumped on that.