4 ms·

> except the pro-choice people seem to overlap heavily with the pro-mandate people. I don't think you can logically hold both of those positions It’s about how

> except the pro-choice people seem to overlap heavily with the pro-mandate people. I don't think you can logically hold both of those positions It’s about how your personal choices impact other people. To be deliberately shocking to help show why these are different: You can’t cough on me and give me an abortion. I can’t choose to have an abortion and that creates a super spreader event that gives everyone around me an abortion. You can choose not to get vaccinated, be an asymptomatic spreader, and pass Covid on to other people. Your choice of taking the vaccine or not taking the vaccine can impact lots of people, and even hasten their death. Societies have various laws that prohibit certain choices you make that can have a negative impact on others. For example see drunk driving, or someones choice to use speech to inflame a riot. Where those lines are drawn, or should be drawn, can certainly be up for debate. Reasonable people can disgree

CryptoPunk 5y ago
COVID vaccines don't stop transmission, so this is not about protecting other people.
- trekz 5y ago
  Exactly. In addition to that, this recurring argument that compares vaccine mandates to mandates prohibiting "bad" acts is odd. Legally speaking, mandating the vaccine is forcing a person to act (get jabbed) through no act of their own. Mandating abortion bans is prohibiting an act (getting an abortion). So the two scenarios aren't comparable.
  - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
    > Mandating abortion bans is prohibiting an act (getting an abortion). Banning abortion means de facto forcing someone to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.
- gilbetron 5y ago
  For variants other than Delta they greatly reduce transmission, with Delta they still reduce it, but not nearly as much.
- ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
  they reduce it by a nonzero amount, which I believe to be an appropriate threshold, given the lack of common, significant side effects you probably have a different threshold, which is okay, but it is likely one you will have to persuade the majority to adopt, if you want to get your way
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    It doesn't reduce it enough to provide herd immunity, meaning the virus will continue to propagate until every one has been exposed. See Iceland's experience: https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/1424011542195023878?s=20 https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/14240115421950238... The Oxford Vaccine Group says herd immunity through vaccination is infeasible now: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-renders-herd-immunity-from-covid-mythical https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-...

CryptoPunk 5y ago

COVID vaccines don't stop transmission, so this is not about protecting other people.

trekz 5y ago
Exactly. In addition to that, this recurring argument that compares vaccine mandates to mandates prohibiting "bad" acts is odd. Legally speaking, mandating the vaccine is forcing a person to act (get jabbed) through no act of their own. Mandating abortion bans is prohibiting an act (getting an abortion). So the two scenarios aren't comparable.
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  > Mandating abortion bans is prohibiting an act (getting an abortion). Banning abortion means de facto forcing someone to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.
gilbetron 5y ago
For variants other than Delta they greatly reduce transmission, with Delta they still reduce it, but not nearly as much.
ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
they reduce it by a nonzero amount, which I believe to be an appropriate threshold, given the lack of common, significant side effects you probably have a different threshold, which is okay, but it is likely one you will have to persuade the majority to adopt, if you want to get your way
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  It doesn't reduce it enough to provide herd immunity, meaning the virus will continue to propagate until every one has been exposed. See Iceland's experience: https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/1424011542195023878?s=20 https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/14240115421950238... The Oxford Vaccine Group says herd immunity through vaccination is infeasible now: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-renders-herd-immunity-from-covid-mythical https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-...