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If a biased, willfully ignorant person would care to follow the link and actually read it, they would see Ohio, New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Maryland, Wis

by babesh 5y ago

If a biased, willfully ignorant person would care to follow the link and actually read it, they would see Ohio, New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Maryland, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania on the list. Are any of these pro business, small government, Republican states? Don't let reality hurt your narrative. Perhaps it is actually the case of regulatory capture of both Democratic and Republican parties in both red and blue states?

austinkhale 5y ago
Only two of the states you mention have a total ban: Wisconsin & Connecticut. The others you pulled from the list of states that have partial bans ie a limited number of stores are allowed. Out of the states with total bans: New Mexico, Alabama, South Carolina, Louisiana, Texas, Connecticut, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Oklahoma, 7 are traditionally considered “deep” red states, 1 is considered purple, and 2 blue. I’ve been to two dealerships in Ohio. I disagree with even a partial ban but limiting the number of stores vs a complete ban are two different things.
- babesh 5y ago
  Those partial bans are effectively total bans because the numbers are so small. In fact, all the partial bans are in the single digits. For example, NY's partial ban is a grand total of 5 dealerships. This is a state with about 20 million people. There are at least 9 BMW dealerships in the Bay Area. Don't be disingenuous. Ohio: 3 New Jersey: 4 Maryland: 4 New York: 5 Pennsylvania: 5 Bay Area BMW dealerships: SF, Fremont, Mountain View, San Mateo, Concord, Berkeley, Santa Clara, Pleasanton, San Rafael
  - austinkhale 5y ago
    Yes, let’s compare the number of BMW dealerships in the Bay Area instead of comparing the number of dealerships Tesla has in comparably sized states where they have no restrictions. Also, we’ll cherry pick blue states from a list of partial ban states when the OP linked to a list of states with total bans. It’s the OTHER people who are being disingenuous, surely. Not sure why this is the hill to die on since my understanding is that we agree that bans— both partial & total are anti consumer. The one comment implying Republican states are being hypocritical with their party platform extolling the benefits of a free market vs the reality of the legislation passed seems reasonable given the numbers.
    - babesh 5y ago
      Can you even read properly? The comment painted it as only Republican states being hypocritical. I called that out as bias and that BOTH parties were under regulatory capture. Sure. Let us now compare Tesla dealerships on a same population basis. There are roughly 17 Tesla dealerships in the Bay Area. The Bay Area has a population of 7-9 million depending on what area you count. New York has a population of 20 million. Why keep dying on smearing the Republicans when it is obvious that both parties are captured? My point was that it wasn't JUST Republicans that were captured but that it was both. I provided evidence that Democratic states were ALSO captured. I don't need to provide evidence that Republicans were captured. I NEVER disputed that. This is basic logic! Assertion: Only R bad Counter example: D bad Conclusion: Therefore, only R bad is false I don't need to provide proof that R is bad. Go take a class on logic. If you already have, go take it again. Another example of bad logic is trying to compare the number of dealerships that a company has versus the maximum number allowed by a partial ban. For example, those 5 NY dealerships are grandfathered in. Tesla ALREADY had those dealerships. Under NY law, it can't have anymore and therefore has already reached its limit. Are you saying that Tesla will NEVER hit these limits in the future when it has already hit one? Your logic: C <= L but L > 0 (and <= 5) so that is less bad My contention: C is just the current number. You don't know what C will be in the future. It is bad. You just don't know how bad it will be. In fact, as C grows it get closer and closer to being just as bad. .99999 repeated is mathematically the same number as 1. Look it up. Lastly, New Mexico, the focus of the article, is heavily Democratic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico_Legislature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico_Legislature Governor, both branches of legislature, 2/3 of representatives to House, both senators. More info. There are roughly 18260 dealerships in the US. So roughly 1 per 20000 people. So roughly 1000 dealerships in NY. The NY limit is 5. Ford has roughly 20% of the market. So if we were to take that as a guesstimate, you are talking 200 dealerships versus the 5 limit. What a joke.
      - austinkhale 5y ago
        >The comment painted it as only Republican states being hypocritical I mean, that's the only possible party that _can_ be hypocritical since their platform is, as the OP described, centered around being "pro-business", "small government". The left does not pretend to champion those things. The fact that 7/10 of the total ban states are deep red and the other 3/10 are battleground or middle of the pack blue, seems unquestionably to constitute hypocrisy on the part of those Republican states. For your original counter argument to be true "D bad" we would need to examine whether the premise that total ban === partial ban. This is false on its face. As I pointed out earlier, it's not an accurate observation, no matter how many comparisons are made to irrelevant things like BMW dealership numbers. Ah yes, let's use the extreme outlier where the company is headquartered. Tesla has not built 17 dealerships in every state around the U.S. and certainly has not in every area the size of the Bay Area. While you likely live in the Bay Area, given your propensity to use it as a reference point, those numbers are abnormal when compared to other states: AZ - 6 CO - 6 DE - 1 DC - 1 GA - 4 HA - 2 ID - 1 IN - 2 MA - 5 MI - 1 NV - 2 NC - 2 OR - 2 RI - 1 TN - 2 UT - 1 VA - 3 WY - 1 vs numbers in partial ban (store limit) states: OH - 3 NJ - 4 MD - 4 NY - 5 PA - 5 Makes those partial ban states not look so terrible anymore, right? Certainly that's different from 0. > My contention: C is just the current number. You don't know what C will be in the future. It is bad. You just don't know how bad it will be. In fact, as C grows it get closer and closer to being just as bad. .99999 repeated is mathematically the same number as 1. Look it up. I don't know what C will be in the future, just as you don't know whether NY will increase the number of allowed Tesla locations. We aren't debating the future. We are debating the present. It seems you are unable to have a discussion without utilizing inflammatory or condescending rhetoric in every reply so I'm going to move on. Have a good night.

by babesh 5y ago

austinkhale 5y ago

Only two of the states you mention have a total ban: Wisconsin & Connecticut. The others you pulled from the list of states that have partial bans ie a limited number of stores are allowed. Out of the states with total bans: New Mexico, Alabama, South Carolina, Louisiana, Texas, Connecticut, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Oklahoma, 7 are traditionally considered “deep” red states, 1 is considered purple, and 2 blue. I’ve been to two dealerships in Ohio. I disagree with even a partial ban but limiting the number of stores vs a complete ban are two different things.

babesh 5y ago
Those partial bans are effectively total bans because the numbers are so small. In fact, all the partial bans are in the single digits. For example, NY's partial ban is a grand total of 5 dealerships. This is a state with about 20 million people. There are at least 9 BMW dealerships in the Bay Area. Don't be disingenuous. Ohio: 3 New Jersey: 4 Maryland: 4 New York: 5 Pennsylvania: 5 Bay Area BMW dealerships: SF, Fremont, Mountain View, San Mateo, Concord, Berkeley, Santa Clara, Pleasanton, San Rafael
- austinkhale 5y ago
  Yes, let’s compare the number of BMW dealerships in the Bay Area instead of comparing the number of dealerships Tesla has in comparably sized states where they have no restrictions. Also, we’ll cherry pick blue states from a list of partial ban states when the OP linked to a list of states with total bans. It’s the OTHER people who are being disingenuous, surely. Not sure why this is the hill to die on since my understanding is that we agree that bans— both partial & total are anti consumer. The one comment implying Republican states are being hypocritical with their party platform extolling the benefits of a free market vs the reality of the legislation passed seems reasonable given the numbers.
  - babesh 5y ago
    Can you even read properly? The comment painted it as only Republican states being hypocritical. I called that out as bias and that BOTH parties were under regulatory capture. Sure. Let us now compare Tesla dealerships on a same population basis. There are roughly 17 Tesla dealerships in the Bay Area. The Bay Area has a population of 7-9 million depending on what area you count. New York has a population of 20 million. Why keep dying on smearing the Republicans when it is obvious that both parties are captured? My point was that it wasn't JUST Republicans that were captured but that it was both. I provided evidence that Democratic states were ALSO captured. I don't need to provide evidence that Republicans were captured. I NEVER disputed that. This is basic logic! Assertion: Only R bad Counter example: D bad Conclusion: Therefore, only R bad is false I don't need to provide proof that R is bad. Go take a class on logic. If you already have, go take it again. Another example of bad logic is trying to compare the number of dealerships that a company has versus the maximum number allowed by a partial ban. For example, those 5 NY dealerships are grandfathered in. Tesla ALREADY had those dealerships. Under NY law, it can't have anymore and therefore has already reached its limit. Are you saying that Tesla will NEVER hit these limits in the future when it has already hit one? Your logic: C <= L but L > 0 (and <= 5) so that is less bad My contention: C is just the current number. You don't know what C will be in the future. It is bad. You just don't know how bad it will be. In fact, as C grows it get closer and closer to being just as bad. .99999 repeated is mathematically the same number as 1. Look it up. Lastly, New Mexico, the focus of the article, is heavily Democratic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico_Legislature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico_Legislature Governor, both branches of legislature, 2/3 of representatives to House, both senators. More info. There are roughly 18260 dealerships in the US. So roughly 1 per 20000 people. So roughly 1000 dealerships in NY. The NY limit is 5. Ford has roughly 20% of the market. So if we were to take that as a guesstimate, you are talking 200 dealerships versus the 5 limit. What a joke.
    - austinkhale 5y ago
      >The comment painted it as only Republican states being hypocritical I mean, that's the only possible party that _can_ be hypocritical since their platform is, as the OP described, centered around being "pro-business", "small government". The left does not pretend to champion those things. The fact that 7/10 of the total ban states are deep red and the other 3/10 are battleground or middle of the pack blue, seems unquestionably to constitute hypocrisy on the part of those Republican states. For your original counter argument to be true "D bad" we would need to examine whether the premise that total ban === partial ban. This is false on its face. As I pointed out earlier, it's not an accurate observation, no matter how many comparisons are made to irrelevant things like BMW dealership numbers. Ah yes, let's use the extreme outlier where the company is headquartered. Tesla has not built 17 dealerships in every state around the U.S. and certainly has not in every area the size of the Bay Area. While you likely live in the Bay Area, given your propensity to use it as a reference point, those numbers are abnormal when compared to other states: AZ - 6 CO - 6 DE - 1 DC - 1 GA - 4 HA - 2 ID - 1 IN - 2 MA - 5 MI - 1 NV - 2 NC - 2 OR - 2 RI - 1 TN - 2 UT - 1 VA - 3 WY - 1 vs numbers in partial ban (store limit) states: OH - 3 NJ - 4 MD - 4 NY - 5 PA - 5 Makes those partial ban states not look so terrible anymore, right? Certainly that's different from 0. > My contention: C is just the current number. You don't know what C will be in the future. It is bad. You just don't know how bad it will be. In fact, as C grows it get closer and closer to being just as bad. .99999 repeated is mathematically the same number as 1. Look it up. I don't know what C will be in the future, just as you don't know whether NY will increase the number of allowed Tesla locations. We aren't debating the future. We are debating the present. It seems you are unable to have a discussion without utilizing inflammatory or condescending rhetoric in every reply so I'm going to move on. Have a good night.