8 ms·

Despite the local critisicms, the tech implementation at TFL is really good. Oystercard was early, it's the same tech as all of public transport in the Netherla

Despite the local critisicms, the tech implementation at TFL is really good. Oystercard was early, it's the same tech as all of public transport in the Netherlands (which started later but covers the whole country), but TFL quickly implemented support for all contactless bank cards while the Netherlands still in 2021 doesn't have that. When I was living in the UK I only had an oystercard to lend it to friends and family visiting. Used Apple pay or my creditcard for all of my own travel.

Foobar8568 5y ago
NL tech was outdated before it was even released.
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  Can you expand on this? I'm far from an expert, but the OV-chipkaart was implemented 15 years ago. At the time 3G connectivity on buses and trams couldn't always be guaranteed, and the tech in the readers was also limited. To me it seems that executing all transactions on the card itself and balancing the books later makes sense given these limitations. (That's not to say I don't have any criticisms on the system - I think the entire 'omchecken' procedure when switching between train companies could have been avoided and doesn't benefit passengers at all, and the system also doesn't allow for a fare cap at the day/week/month ticket level like Oyster.)
  - vanviegen 5y ago
    I think GP is referring to the fact that the system used (uses?) NFC chips with very weak encryption, even for the time. https://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/ov-chip-card/ https://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/ov-chip-card/
    - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
      That was certainly a mistake, but those were replaced by cards with more secure chips in 2011 [1] - I think it's hardly fair to write off the entire system as 'outdated at launch' because of one (admittedly high-profile) security flaw. [1] https://tweakers.net/nieuws/77247/uitrol-veiligere-ov-chipkaart-is-al-begonnen.html https://tweakers.net/nieuws/77247/uitrol-veiligere-ov-chipka...
      - Foobar8568 5y ago
        Considering that I have seen the code behind these systems, it was an ugly mess and outdated systems.
        Tijdreiziger 5y ago
        Alright, I'm willing to take your word on that. I only experienced it as a user :)
  - Foobar8568 5y ago
    Well a good part of the back office at that time was built on MMC consoles in addition to what Vanviegen said on MiFare cards.
starky 5y ago
I disagree, here in Vancouver our system is also from Cubic and it is terrible. Our transit corporation, Translink, had to switch all the buses to a single zone fare because they couldn't get the system to work over the cellular network. Not to mention that the cost to run the system every year is more than the total fare evasion on the entire system before it was implemented. So revenue is lower on that part of the system and they aren't saving any money. At rapid transit stations, the fare gates are not reliable and extremely slow. It is shocking how much better the much older MTR system is in Hong Kong in comparison.
- rad_gruchalski 5y ago
  > I disagree, here in Vancouver our system is also from Cubic and it is terrible. Okay, but you disagree based on a different system. I’m not sure what’s the disagreement about, GP was expressing their opinion about Oyster vs OV. Regardless, when I was working in London and areas from 2008 to 2012, I loved it. Used it on every form of transport and topped up everywhere, simple swipe and done. OV card is also very nice. Swipe while getting on / off and done. The Oyster system felt a little bit more convenient with regards to the reader placement but OV is okay.

Foobar8568 5y ago

NL tech was outdated before it was even released.

Tijdreiziger 5y ago
Can you expand on this? I'm far from an expert, but the OV-chipkaart was implemented 15 years ago. At the time 3G connectivity on buses and trams couldn't always be guaranteed, and the tech in the readers was also limited. To me it seems that executing all transactions on the card itself and balancing the books later makes sense given these limitations. (That's not to say I don't have any criticisms on the system - I think the entire 'omchecken' procedure when switching between train companies could have been avoided and doesn't benefit passengers at all, and the system also doesn't allow for a fare cap at the day/week/month ticket level like Oyster.)
- vanviegen 5y ago
  I think GP is referring to the fact that the system used (uses?) NFC chips with very weak encryption, even for the time. https://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/ov-chip-card/ https://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/ov-chip-card/
  - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
    That was certainly a mistake, but those were replaced by cards with more secure chips in 2011 [1] - I think it's hardly fair to write off the entire system as 'outdated at launch' because of one (admittedly high-profile) security flaw. [1] https://tweakers.net/nieuws/77247/uitrol-veiligere-ov-chipkaart-is-al-begonnen.html https://tweakers.net/nieuws/77247/uitrol-veiligere-ov-chipka...
    - Foobar8568 5y ago
      Considering that I have seen the code behind these systems, it was an ugly mess and outdated systems.
      - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
        Alright, I'm willing to take your word on that. I only experienced it as a user :)
- Foobar8568 5y ago
  Well a good part of the back office at that time was built on MMC consoles in addition to what Vanviegen said on MiFare cards.

starky 5y ago

I disagree, here in Vancouver our system is also from Cubic and it is terrible. Our transit corporation, Translink, had to switch all the buses to a single zone fare because they couldn't get the system to work over the cellular network. Not to mention that the cost to run the system every year is more than the total fare evasion on the entire system before it was implemented. So revenue is lower on that part of the system and they aren't saving any money. At rapid transit stations, the fare gates are not reliable and extremely slow. It is shocking how much better the much older MTR system is in Hong Kong in comparison.

rad_gruchalski 5y ago
> I disagree, here in Vancouver our system is also from Cubic and it is terrible. Okay, but you disagree based on a different system. I’m not sure what’s the disagreement about, GP was expressing their opinion about Oyster vs OV. Regardless, when I was working in London and areas from 2008 to 2012, I loved it. Used it on every form of transport and topped up everywhere, simple swipe and done. OV card is also very nice. Swipe while getting on / off and done. The Oyster system felt a little bit more convenient with regards to the reader placement but OV is okay.