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>Has the government been encouraging people to take vitamin D, get fresh air, exercise, and get to a healthy weight? The government has been advocating for exe

>Has the government been encouraging people to take vitamin D, get fresh air, exercise, and get to a healthy weight? The government has been advocating for exercise and general health for decades. Despite this, we remain one of the least fit countries in the world. If the government cannot convince someone to take a safe, free shot that might save their lives, how can you reasonably expect them to convince someone to exercise?

moistrobot 5y ago
Because obesity will kill them. That's the message that's not being said in a COVID context. Healthy at every size is one of the biggest health lies in America
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  >Because obesity will kill them. That's the message that's not being said in a COVID context. Heart disease is the leading cause of death in America, and obesity is the #1 risk factor for it. This message has been clear and emphasized since the 1970s. Despite messaging, obesity has gotten worse, not better. You are wrong and oversimplifying the problem if you think COVID can be solved by telling people to lose weight.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    That message can be reinforced in the context of COVID, given obesity is the leading preventable risk factor for COVID. Instead, a huge number of people are laser focused on rationalizing the imposition of mandates, especially on extremely low-risk group, even children.
    - edanm 5y ago
      It's really not an either-or situation. You can encourage people to be generally healthier, and also encourage them to get vaccinated (or force them). And if you compare the two, the vaccine is much closer to a magic cure - it's very dependable and takes "1 month" to work (assuming a two shot vaccine). Whereas encouraging people to be less obese is both incredibly hard (as decades of campaigns prove), and even in the best case scenario, would take a long time for most people.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - CryptoPunk 5y ago
        People should definitely be encouraged to get vaccinated too, I agree. But there should be no institutionalized discrimination against the unvaccinated, just as we shouldn't discriminate against the obese to encourage them to eat less.
- mbfg 5y ago
  if i'm fat, my fat won't jump onto you and kill you.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    COVID vaccines don't stop transmission, so don't protect other people.
    - mbfg 5y ago
      For individuals this is true, for populations this is false.
      - CryptoPunk 5y ago
        No, it is true for populations as well. Herd immunity via vaccination is not possible: https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/1424011542195023878?s=20 https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/14240115421950238...
        jasonlaramburu 5y ago
        This is a misleading interpretation of the data in Iceland. According to the parent link, 18 people are hospitalized there, compared to ~80,000 in the US. Adjusted for population, that is a >75% lower overall hospitalization rate. Infection rates in unvaccinated are also more than 2x vaccinated in Iceland. Unless you misinterpret the data, it is undeniable that vaccines reduce transmission and incidence of severe disease. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-954838214391 https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-954838214391
        CryptoPunk 5y ago
        The higher rates of death and serious illness among the unvaccinated has nothing to do with what I was arguing. You are willfully misinterpreting my argument. I was arguing that given Iceland, at almost full vaccination, is having its biggest COVID wave yet, means full vaccination does not provide herd immunity, and thus every one will eventually get exposed to COVID irrespective of the vaccination rate. So you can't make a sound argument that other people's decision to get the vaccine is increasing other people's chance of being exposed to COVID.
anonfornoreason 5y ago
Government sponsored marketing campaigns do not compare to mandates for vaccines in the workplace. Until the government mandates food quality standards and people start arguing about whether they can buy/sell Doritos or Pepsi in schools, workplaces, as part of foodstamps, etc as part of their freedoms, then it's a false equivalence.
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  >Until the government mandates food quality standards That's a great idea but if you believe that the government mandating workplace safety standards is massive overreach, then how could it possibly tell people what they can and cannot eat?
  - anonfornoreason 5y ago
    Not advocating for anything here, just pointing out (what seem to me) logically comparable things.
    - ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
      cynically advocating for a position you don't actually hold is one of the weakest ways to make a point, and the people who resort to it are almost invariably bad at judging what is and isn't comparable be bold enough to advocate for a position here and defend it
      - anonfornoreason 5y ago
        Thanks for the feedback

moistrobot 5y ago

Because obesity will kill them. That's the message that's not being said in a COVID context. Healthy at every size is one of the biggest health lies in America

jasonlaramburu 5y ago
>Because obesity will kill them. That's the message that's not being said in a COVID context. Heart disease is the leading cause of death in America, and obesity is the #1 risk factor for it. This message has been clear and emphasized since the 1970s. Despite messaging, obesity has gotten worse, not better. You are wrong and oversimplifying the problem if you think COVID can be solved by telling people to lose weight.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  That message can be reinforced in the context of COVID, given obesity is the leading preventable risk factor for COVID. Instead, a huge number of people are laser focused on rationalizing the imposition of mandates, especially on extremely low-risk group, even children.
  - edanm 5y ago
    It's really not an either-or situation. You can encourage people to be generally healthier, and also encourage them to get vaccinated (or force them). And if you compare the two, the vaccine is much closer to a magic cure - it's very dependable and takes "1 month" to work (assuming a two shot vaccine). Whereas encouraging people to be less obese is both incredibly hard (as decades of campaigns prove), and even in the best case scenario, would take a long time for most people.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      People should definitely be encouraged to get vaccinated too, I agree. But there should be no institutionalized discrimination against the unvaccinated, just as we shouldn't discriminate against the obese to encourage them to eat less.
mbfg 5y ago
if i'm fat, my fat won't jump onto you and kill you.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  COVID vaccines don't stop transmission, so don't protect other people.
  - mbfg 5y ago
    For individuals this is true, for populations this is false.
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      No, it is true for populations as well. Herd immunity via vaccination is not possible: https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/1424011542195023878?s=20 https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/14240115421950238...
      - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
        This is a misleading interpretation of the data in Iceland. According to the parent link, 18 people are hospitalized there, compared to ~80,000 in the US. Adjusted for population, that is a >75% lower overall hospitalization rate. Infection rates in unvaccinated are also more than 2x vaccinated in Iceland. Unless you misinterpret the data, it is undeniable that vaccines reduce transmission and incidence of severe disease. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-954838214391 https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-954838214391
        CryptoPunk 5y ago
        The higher rates of death and serious illness among the unvaccinated has nothing to do with what I was arguing. You are willfully misinterpreting my argument. I was arguing that given Iceland, at almost full vaccination, is having its biggest COVID wave yet, means full vaccination does not provide herd immunity, and thus every one will eventually get exposed to COVID irrespective of the vaccination rate. So you can't make a sound argument that other people's decision to get the vaccine is increasing other people's chance of being exposed to COVID.

anonfornoreason 5y ago

Government sponsored marketing campaigns do not compare to mandates for vaccines in the workplace. Until the government mandates food quality standards and people start arguing about whether they can buy/sell Doritos or Pepsi in schools, workplaces, as part of foodstamps, etc as part of their freedoms, then it's a false equivalence.

jasonlaramburu 5y ago
>Until the government mandates food quality standards That's a great idea but if you believe that the government mandating workplace safety standards is massive overreach, then how could it possibly tell people what they can and cannot eat?
- anonfornoreason 5y ago
  Not advocating for anything here, just pointing out (what seem to me) logically comparable things.
  - ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
    cynically advocating for a position you don't actually hold is one of the weakest ways to make a point, and the people who resort to it are almost invariably bad at judging what is and isn't comparable be bold enough to advocate for a position here and defend it
    - anonfornoreason 5y ago
      Thanks for the feedback