5 ms·

I'm curious - of the folks that have not gotten vaccinated, do we have an idea of how many haven't gotten it because they strongly do not want to get it, and ho

by xur17 5y ago

I'm curious - of the folks that have not gotten vaccinated, do we have an idea of how many haven't gotten it because they strongly do not want to get it, and how many haven't gotten it for other less strong reasons (inability to get time off work, mixed signals from social media, etc)?

jasonlaramburu 5y ago
I don't know that there is much data specific to the COVID vaccine, but for vaccines in general the overwhelming concern seems to be the (false) perception that vaccines are not safe: https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-01-14/survey-fewer-people-now-support-vaccinating-their-kids-than-in-2001 https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/...
a_conservative 5y ago
For me personally, it's decreased general trust. I don't see the establishment as having a lot of credibility at this point. Bad smells that make me distrust: Changing definitions of the word vaccine, so that the Covid 19 injections can be considered a vaccine. It becoming impermissible to question the vaccine. If you tell me there isn't room to doubt, then my response to you is bullshit. I've been a skeptic my entire life, and it has served me well. If I'm wrong this time and I die because of it, so be it.
- namlem 5y ago
  In what way are these vaccines not vaccines? Because they are based on mRNA rather than inactive viruses or virus fragments?
  - a_conservative 5y ago
    I'm not claiming that they aren't vaccines. Words change definition to follow usage. However, Merriam-Webster literally changed their definition of vaccine in the past 6 months or so. [0][1] My argument is that by including these injections under the term vaccine, they are getting a halo effect from past vaccines that isn't warranted. Questioning vaccines is the lowest of the low, almost unthinkable, but these "vaccines" aren't like the old ones. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine [1] https://archive.is/XGfdr https://archive.is/XGfdr
    - Hallucinaut 5y ago
      Then why wouldn't you just take one of the vaccines that meets the old definition of vaccine that you hold the esteem for? I get that anything new is less trustworthy by default, but that's only two mRNA "vaccines". The rest are attenuated, or inactivated, or sub-units of other viruses or COVID itself. In all cases they make your body respond to proteins, that's all. Given the respective effective rates from mRNA vs. traditional vaccine methods if anything it's the halo effect of the effectiveness of the mRNA that are boosting the success rates.
    - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
      The J&J vaccine is adenovirus. It’s the same class of vaccine as the flu shot we have had for decades. If you’re really concerned just take that one.
    - pseudalopex 5y ago
      Their old definition didn't match usage. Diphtheria and tetanus vaccines use inactivated toxins for example. And the same dictionary said viruses are usually regarded as nonliving extremely complex molecules.[1] I checked 2 dictionaries from before 2020. Neither said a vaccine had to be made from certain things. [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20190118214500/https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virus http://web.archive.org/web/20190118214500/https://www.merria...
- maxlybbert 5y ago
  It’s amusing how last year people said they couldn’t trust any vaccine approved by the FDA while Trump was president and running for re-election. Now those same people believe those same vaccines will save the world, not because the FDA released more data or that additional studies have proven the vaccines more effective than they were last year, but because there’s a new president. If your idea of “trust the science” starts and ends with “who’s in the White House?” you have a different definition of “science” than I do.
  - angelzen 5y ago
    s/amusing/tragic/
angelzen 5y ago
Vaccine protection seems to substantially diminish over time / virus evolution. Israel is boosting with third shot. UK August data shows same rate of infection vax/unvax for over 40s, and only half reduction in infection rate for under 40s. (Yeah, I know, severe infection protection is much better, so far). Pfizer CEO is on-record concerned about vaccine escape and ready to prepare new jabs on a 3 month notice. Covid is here to stay. What is the long term plan? 'Boost' every 6 months with an ever changing cocktail that has not passed any clinical trials? In perpetuity? This is insanity. I do not see any long term way out of covid pandemic other than natural immunity. Some studies have shown it is much stronger than vaccine protection. I hope they are right, or else the future is grim. Personally I really really hope that vax + mild infection works. WE DO have a population for which natural immunity can be acquired at minimum cost: under 18s. For which the risk of covid death is ~1-2% of the already tiny risk of death from all other causes. Leave the kids alone. What doesn't help: Messaging that so incredibly determined to pretend that natural immunity plays no role and that covid risk for a 10 year old is the same as covid risk for an 80 year old (in fact it is 1/1000).
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  > I do not see any long term way out of covid pandemic other than natural immunity. We get annual boosters for many viruses. If you’re really hell bent on getting covid, your likelihood of severe illness is 10x less with at least one dose of the vaccine, and your immunity will be higher than infection alone. The messaging that natural immunity is the only way out, and that getting the virus is somehow ‘better’ than the vaccine is ludicrous.
  - angelzen 5y ago
    There are no mandatory annual shots. Tired of personalization of the disease. I'm not 'hell bent' to do anything. Covid is endemic, there is no herd immunity. The only question is how to manage the severity of the disease, for all the infection events to occur in the long run. I'm vaccinated and keep an eye on https://www.novavax.com/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-candidate-updates https://www.novavax.com/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-candida.... Or do I need to tattoo 'Pfizer' on my forehead to be allowed to participate in society?

by xur17 5y ago

jasonlaramburu 5y ago

I don't know that there is much data specific to the COVID vaccine, but for vaccines in general the overwhelming concern seems to be the (false) perception that vaccines are not safe: https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-01-14/survey-fewer-people-now-support-vaccinating-their-kids-than-in-2001 https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/...

a_conservative 5y ago

For me personally, it's decreased general trust. I don't see the establishment as having a lot of credibility at this point. Bad smells that make me distrust: Changing definitions of the word vaccine, so that the Covid 19 injections can be considered a vaccine. It becoming impermissible to question the vaccine. If you tell me there isn't room to doubt, then my response to you is bullshit. I've been a skeptic my entire life, and it has served me well. If I'm wrong this time and I die because of it, so be it.

namlem 5y ago
In what way are these vaccines not vaccines? Because they are based on mRNA rather than inactive viruses or virus fragments?
- a_conservative 5y ago
  I'm not claiming that they aren't vaccines. Words change definition to follow usage. However, Merriam-Webster literally changed their definition of vaccine in the past 6 months or so. [0][1] My argument is that by including these injections under the term vaccine, they are getting a halo effect from past vaccines that isn't warranted. Questioning vaccines is the lowest of the low, almost unthinkable, but these "vaccines" aren't like the old ones. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine [1] https://archive.is/XGfdr https://archive.is/XGfdr
  - Hallucinaut 5y ago
    Then why wouldn't you just take one of the vaccines that meets the old definition of vaccine that you hold the esteem for? I get that anything new is less trustworthy by default, but that's only two mRNA "vaccines". The rest are attenuated, or inactivated, or sub-units of other viruses or COVID itself. In all cases they make your body respond to proteins, that's all. Given the respective effective rates from mRNA vs. traditional vaccine methods if anything it's the halo effect of the effectiveness of the mRNA that are boosting the success rates.
  - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
    The J&J vaccine is adenovirus. It’s the same class of vaccine as the flu shot we have had for decades. If you’re really concerned just take that one.
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    Their old definition didn't match usage. Diphtheria and tetanus vaccines use inactivated toxins for example. And the same dictionary said viruses are usually regarded as nonliving extremely complex molecules.[1] I checked 2 dictionaries from before 2020. Neither said a vaccine had to be made from certain things. [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20190118214500/https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virus http://web.archive.org/web/20190118214500/https://www.merria...
maxlybbert 5y ago
It’s amusing how last year people said they couldn’t trust any vaccine approved by the FDA while Trump was president and running for re-election. Now those same people believe those same vaccines will save the world, not because the FDA released more data or that additional studies have proven the vaccines more effective than they were last year, but because there’s a new president. If your idea of “trust the science” starts and ends with “who’s in the White House?” you have a different definition of “science” than I do.
- angelzen 5y ago
  s/amusing/tragic/

angelzen 5y ago

Vaccine protection seems to substantially diminish over time / virus evolution. Israel is boosting with third shot. UK August data shows same rate of infection vax/unvax for over 40s, and only half reduction in infection rate for under 40s. (Yeah, I know, severe infection protection is much better, so far). Pfizer CEO is on-record concerned about vaccine escape and ready to prepare new jabs on a 3 month notice. Covid is here to stay. What is the long term plan? 'Boost' every 6 months with an ever changing cocktail that has not passed any clinical trials? In perpetuity? This is insanity. I do not see any long term way out of covid pandemic other than natural immunity. Some studies have shown it is much stronger than vaccine protection. I hope they are right, or else the future is grim. Personally I really really hope that vax + mild infection works. WE DO have a population for which natural immunity can be acquired at minimum cost: under 18s. For which the risk of covid death is ~1-2% of the already tiny risk of death from all other causes. Leave the kids alone. What doesn't help: Messaging that so incredibly determined to pretend that natural immunity plays no role and that covid risk for a 10 year old is the same as covid risk for an 80 year old (in fact it is 1/1000).

jasonlaramburu 5y ago
> I do not see any long term way out of covid pandemic other than natural immunity. We get annual boosters for many viruses. If you’re really hell bent on getting covid, your likelihood of severe illness is 10x less with at least one dose of the vaccine, and your immunity will be higher than infection alone. The messaging that natural immunity is the only way out, and that getting the virus is somehow ‘better’ than the vaccine is ludicrous.
- angelzen 5y ago
  There are no mandatory annual shots. Tired of personalization of the disease. I'm not 'hell bent' to do anything. Covid is endemic, there is no herd immunity. The only question is how to manage the severity of the disease, for all the infection events to occur in the long run. I'm vaccinated and keep an eye on https://www.novavax.com/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-candidate-updates https://www.novavax.com/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-candida.... Or do I need to tattoo 'Pfizer' on my forehead to be allowed to participate in society?