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These days I can never tell what people mean when they say white supremacist. So often I take it literally and it turns out to be implying some kind of ethereal

These days I can never tell what people mean when they say white supremacist. So often I take it literally and it turns out to be implying some kind of ethereal nuanced phenomenon or social boogeyman rather than someone who actually actively claims white people are some kind of supreme race. In my town there was a local scandal of sorts where some people got exposed as promoting white nationalism but then they were called white supremacists in all the reporting. I got some very aggressive responses when I suggested that Japan is historically very Japanese nationalist but that doesn’t mean they think Japanese people are a supreme race. There must be some sliding scale correlating nuance with hostility, it makes things very confusing to understand and discuss. I’ve even seen people lately claim that striving to always do better and improve your life or maintain a high standard of living or make a better life for your kids is actually racist! That being said, does anyone know what they actually mean by white supremacist in this article?

ehutch79 5y ago
The article said that the ceo was involved in shooting up a synagog... soooo.... kind of hard to defend as 'striving to do better'
droopyEyelids 5y ago
It's the very first paragraph. >In April 2020, news broke that Banjo CEO Damien Patton ... pled guilty to involvement in a 1990 shooting attack on a synagogue in Tennessee.
jazzyjackson 5y ago
I am not claiming this is the case, only pointing out a subtle difference between “maintain a standard of living…make a better life for your kids” and “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children” The former is self-concern, the latter is dividing the world into whites and non-whites. similar to japanese people making a distinction between japanese and non-japanese, it is not automatically supremacist, but being concerned for the survival of your race (or preferring politics that keeps your nation and your race aligned) does seem awfully close to thinking that it’s better to keep your race in charge. so to me, i would need someone to explain how being white nationalist is distinct from white supremacy. is a nationalist just concerned with whites becoming a minority? why, if not the assumption of superiority?
- tynpeddler 5y ago
  Maybe it's along the lines of "Races should be ruled by members of their race" versus "<Specific Race> should rule everyone". Then the first would be race nationalism, while the second is race supremacy. The next question though is when someone claims race nationalism, are they being sincere or just trying trying to make their race supremacy more marketable?
- beagle3 5y ago
  Religions do seem to get a pass, though - I’ve never seen accusations of people being “Jewish nationalist” or “Christian nationalist” or “Muslim nationalist” for expressing wishes their kids will marry within the religious “nations”. There is a difference here - one can convert and change their religion (not so for genetic origin…) but it’s too similar in my opinion and shouldn’t get the “acceptable” pass that it does.
  - eli_gottlieb 5y ago
    >I’ve never seen accusations of people being “Jewish nationalist” or “Christian nationalist” or “Muslim nationalist” for expressing wishes their kids will marry within the religious “nations”. Oh, it absolutely happens. We have whole flame-wars about it.
    - cema 5y ago
      Not just flame wars; wars.
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - drodgers 5y ago
    'Hindu nationalism' has been a very hot topic of conversation in India in recent years.
- 5y ago
canniballectern 5y ago
Your comment is confusing to me - the article is quite clear that when they say "white supremacist", they mean "a white person who committed a hate crime against Jews". > Patton pled guilty to involvement in a 1990 shooting attack on a synagogue in Tennessee Doesn't seem very ambiguous to me.
- hirundo 5y ago
  Are Jews white? I'm one and I don't know. Until about 1980 Jewish was separate category from Caucasian on my school forms. I've been told by a KKK member that I'm not white. We appear to be designated as white for purposes of accounting for privilege. To some people it depends on whether we are Ashkenazi or Sephardic. So a hate crime against Jews might or might not be about whiteness.
  - canniballectern 5y ago
    Regardless of where you personally draw the distinction, it's clear what the article means when they say it. That other guy acting like it's a mystery where the accusations of white supremacy are coming from is really reaching.
  - eli_gottlieb 5y ago
    The answer was about to be a plain-and-simple NO when the Census would separate "White" for European from MENA. And then they cancelled that because people decided Trump couldn't be trusted with knowing some people weren't of European descent.
  - soco 5y ago
    From a distance, seems that "white" more often than not means actually "wasp".
    - krapp 5y ago
      What do you think the "W" in WASP stands for?
okwubodu 5y ago
> some people got exposed as promoting white nationalism but then they were called white supremacists in all the reporting Is the difference enough to warrant a distinction? Merriam Webster doesn’t bother to make one. The definition of white supremacist is quite clear: > “supporting the belief that white people constitute a superior race, typically to the exclusion or detriment of other racial and ethnic groups.” There’s nothing that necessitates actively claiming the belief. After all, Jim Crow laws were enforced under the guise of separate but equal, but nobody would say they weren’t white supremacist.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> In my town there was a local scandal of sorts where some people got exposed as promoting white nationalism but then they were called white supremacists in all the reporting. White nationalism is a particular expression of white supremacism.
nieve 5y ago
"Patton pled guilty to involvement in a 1990 shooting attack on a synagogue in Tennessee." I'm having trouble seeing how you can look at that and claim well maybe it's not really white supremacy.
ralfn 5y ago
1. Nationalism is fascism. At least in Europe we don't really distinguish between the two given our history. 2. Yes Japan is very racist. Other countries can be racist too. 3. You are making up straw man arguments: >I’ve even seen people lately claim that striving to always do better and improve your life or maintain a high standard of living or make a better life for your kids is actually racist! Source? 4. If you find yourself spending a lot of time trying to argue you are a not racist...
- unmole 5y ago
  > Nationalism is fascism. So, Gandhi was fascist?

ehutch79 5y ago

The article said that the ceo was involved in shooting up a synagog... soooo.... kind of hard to defend as 'striving to do better'

droopyEyelids 5y ago

It's the very first paragraph. >In April 2020, news broke that Banjo CEO Damien Patton ... pled guilty to involvement in a 1990 shooting attack on a synagogue in Tennessee.

jazzyjackson 5y ago

I am not claiming this is the case, only pointing out a subtle difference between “maintain a standard of living…make a better life for your kids” and “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children” The former is self-concern, the latter is dividing the world into whites and non-whites. similar to japanese people making a distinction between japanese and non-japanese, it is not automatically supremacist, but being concerned for the survival of your race (or preferring politics that keeps your nation and your race aligned) does seem awfully close to thinking that it’s better to keep your race in charge. so to me, i would need someone to explain how being white nationalist is distinct from white supremacy. is a nationalist just concerned with whites becoming a minority? why, if not the assumption of superiority?

tynpeddler 5y ago
Maybe it's along the lines of "Races should be ruled by members of their race" versus "<Specific Race> should rule everyone". Then the first would be race nationalism, while the second is race supremacy. The next question though is when someone claims race nationalism, are they being sincere or just trying trying to make their race supremacy more marketable?
beagle3 5y ago
Religions do seem to get a pass, though - I’ve never seen accusations of people being “Jewish nationalist” or “Christian nationalist” or “Muslim nationalist” for expressing wishes their kids will marry within the religious “nations”. There is a difference here - one can convert and change their religion (not so for genetic origin…) but it’s too similar in my opinion and shouldn’t get the “acceptable” pass that it does.
- eli_gottlieb 5y ago
  >I’ve never seen accusations of people being “Jewish nationalist” or “Christian nationalist” or “Muslim nationalist” for expressing wishes their kids will marry within the religious “nations”. Oh, it absolutely happens. We have whole flame-wars about it.
  - cema 5y ago
    Not just flame wars; wars.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- drodgers 5y ago
  'Hindu nationalism' has been a very hot topic of conversation in India in recent years.
5y ago

canniballectern 5y ago

Your comment is confusing to me - the article is quite clear that when they say "white supremacist", they mean "a white person who committed a hate crime against Jews". > Patton pled guilty to involvement in a 1990 shooting attack on a synagogue in Tennessee Doesn't seem very ambiguous to me.

hirundo 5y ago
Are Jews white? I'm one and I don't know. Until about 1980 Jewish was separate category from Caucasian on my school forms. I've been told by a KKK member that I'm not white. We appear to be designated as white for purposes of accounting for privilege. To some people it depends on whether we are Ashkenazi or Sephardic. So a hate crime against Jews might or might not be about whiteness.
- canniballectern 5y ago
  Regardless of where you personally draw the distinction, it's clear what the article means when they say it. That other guy acting like it's a mystery where the accusations of white supremacy are coming from is really reaching.
- eli_gottlieb 5y ago
  The answer was about to be a plain-and-simple NO when the Census would separate "White" for European from MENA. And then they cancelled that because people decided Trump couldn't be trusted with knowing some people weren't of European descent.
- soco 5y ago
  From a distance, seems that "white" more often than not means actually "wasp".
  - krapp 5y ago
    What do you think the "W" in WASP stands for?

okwubodu 5y ago

> some people got exposed as promoting white nationalism but then they were called white supremacists in all the reporting Is the difference enough to warrant a distinction? Merriam Webster doesn’t bother to make one. The definition of white supremacist is quite clear: > “supporting the belief that white people constitute a superior race, typically to the exclusion or detriment of other racial and ethnic groups.” There’s nothing that necessitates actively claiming the belief. After all, Jim Crow laws were enforced under the guise of separate but equal, but nobody would say they weren’t white supremacist.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> In my town there was a local scandal of sorts where some people got exposed as promoting white nationalism but then they were called white supremacists in all the reporting. White nationalism is a particular expression of white supremacism.

nieve 5y ago

"Patton pled guilty to involvement in a 1990 shooting attack on a synagogue in Tennessee." I'm having trouble seeing how you can look at that and claim well maybe it's not really white supremacy.

ralfn 5y ago

1. Nationalism is fascism. At least in Europe we don't really distinguish between the two given our history. 2. Yes Japan is very racist. Other countries can be racist too. 3. You are making up straw man arguments: >I’ve even seen people lately claim that striving to always do better and improve your life or maintain a high standard of living or make a better life for your kids is actually racist! Source? 4. If you find yourself spending a lot of time trying to argue you are a not racist...

unmole 5y ago
> Nationalism is fascism. So, Gandhi was fascist?