4 ms·

How dare they make their systems work so well together and easy to use.

by simonh 5y ago

xvector 5y ago
The Google Pixel works well and is easy to use but still lets you install custom ROMs.
- btmiller 5y ago
  Sounds to me like the invisible hand of the free market economy. Use that phone, then. A given company is not obligated to serve all of your specific needs and desires.
  - widowlark 5y ago
    but their practices might still be considered anti-competitive if harmful enough to end users
    - paulmd 5y ago
      You’re perfectly welcome to consider whatever you want but the judge just ruled it isn’t. That’s legalese for “your opinion is wrong”.
      - widowlark 5y ago
        that's not legalese, and that's not the judges ruling
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
Not mutually exclusive. You can build systems that work well together and are easy to use without lock-in. Users should want to use the product because it is the best, not because they feel trapped.
howinteresting 5y ago
What does not allowing alternative browsers (only skins) on their best-selling platform have to do with that?
danShumway 5y ago
That's not really what lock-in means. An example of lock-in is making a conscious decision not to port iMessage to Android, specifically because it would make it easier for iPhone users to move to Android[0]. Making Apple products work well with other Apple products isn't lock-in. Purposefully making Apple products work worse with other systems, phrased within the company as a way to punish users who switch, is the kind of thing we're talking about when we describe lock-in. [0]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/apple-never-made-imessage-for-android-to-lock-in-ios-users-epic-court-docs-show/ar-BB1ftHE1 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/apple-never-made-i...
- ricardobeat 5y ago
  How easy is it to migrate from Google’s Messages app to iMessage?
  - danShumway 5y ago
    Is your argument that Google doesn't try to engage in lock-in? Or is your argument that lock-in is good for users? Either way, when there are literal emails in the company saying that the reason iMessage isn't on Android is because otherwise it would be too easy for Apple users to switch to Android -- then that's what lock-in is. I don't get the whataboutism here. It's lock-in. Google is also a crappy company, but that doesn't change anything about what Apple is doing, and it doesn't change anything about the fact that the court case has revealed enough documents to show that lock-in is a deliberate market strategy that Apple undertakes. Google also acting crappy in a few cases does not mean that the very concept of lock-in is suddenly invalid. People forget that Apple is not the only company being sued for antitrust in regards to their app stores.
    - ricardobeat 5y ago
      I don’t have time right now to expand, but the greater argument is that data portability is a much larger problem. There is nothing nefarious about Microsoft deciding to not support Office on Mac, just like iMessage on Android. It’s a business decision. There are plenty of cross-platform alternatives. If Apple actively blocked messaging apps from exporting their data then we’d have a story.
asdff 5y ago
Until these systems start aging and are no longer interoperable with more recent versions. It's not like Apple is giving us a bash like experience where things just work for decades.
Siira 5y ago
As if anyone would have needed that if interoperable standards with FOSS implementations were around. It’s 2021 and there is still no file system that is safe, and works on both macOS and Windows.

How dare they make their systems work so well together and easy to use.

by simonh 5y ago

How dare they make their systems work so well together and easy to use.

xvector 5y ago

The Google Pixel works well and is easy to use but still lets you install custom ROMs.

btmiller 5y ago
Sounds to me like the invisible hand of the free market economy. Use that phone, then. A given company is not obligated to serve all of your specific needs and desires.
- widowlark 5y ago
  but their practices might still be considered anti-competitive if harmful enough to end users
  - paulmd 5y ago
    You’re perfectly welcome to consider whatever you want but the judge just ruled it isn’t. That’s legalese for “your opinion is wrong”.
    - widowlark 5y ago
      that's not legalese, and that's not the judges ruling

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

Not mutually exclusive. You can build systems that work well together and are easy to use without lock-in. Users should want to use the product because it is the best, not because they feel trapped.

howinteresting 5y ago

What does not allowing alternative browsers (only skins) on their best-selling platform have to do with that?

danShumway 5y ago

That's not really what lock-in means. An example of lock-in is making a conscious decision not to port iMessage to Android, specifically because it would make it easier for iPhone users to move to Android[0]. Making Apple products work well with other Apple products isn't lock-in. Purposefully making Apple products work worse with other systems, phrased within the company as a way to punish users who switch, is the kind of thing we're talking about when we describe lock-in. [0]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/apple-never-made-imessage-for-android-to-lock-in-ios-users-epic-court-docs-show/ar-BB1ftHE1 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/apple-never-made-i...

ricardobeat 5y ago
How easy is it to migrate from Google’s Messages app to iMessage?
- danShumway 5y ago
  Is your argument that Google doesn't try to engage in lock-in? Or is your argument that lock-in is good for users? Either way, when there are literal emails in the company saying that the reason iMessage isn't on Android is because otherwise it would be too easy for Apple users to switch to Android -- then that's what lock-in is. I don't get the whataboutism here. It's lock-in. Google is also a crappy company, but that doesn't change anything about what Apple is doing, and it doesn't change anything about the fact that the court case has revealed enough documents to show that lock-in is a deliberate market strategy that Apple undertakes. Google also acting crappy in a few cases does not mean that the very concept of lock-in is suddenly invalid. People forget that Apple is not the only company being sued for antitrust in regards to their app stores.
  - ricardobeat 5y ago
    I don’t have time right now to expand, but the greater argument is that data portability is a much larger problem. There is nothing nefarious about Microsoft deciding to not support Office on Mac, just like iMessage on Android. It’s a business decision. There are plenty of cross-platform alternatives. If Apple actively blocked messaging apps from exporting their data then we’d have a story.

asdff 5y ago

Until these systems start aging and are no longer interoperable with more recent versions. It's not like Apple is giving us a bash like experience where things just work for decades.

Siira 5y ago

As if anyone would have needed that if interoperable standards with FOSS implementations were around. It’s 2021 and there is still no file system that is safe, and works on both macOS and Windows.