3 ms·

Yes exactly. It's not the bundling that's the problem, it's preventing free use of the hardware.

by skohan 5y ago

endisneigh 5y ago
Is that actually an issue though, given that Apple has never advertised their hardware as being "free-use"?
- gpm 5y ago
  In my opinion it should be, it should be an abuse of Apple's monopoly on the hardware (including patents preventing someone else from building an equivalent device) to create a monopoly on the software. Legally I don't think it is today though, and my understanding of the law is that it's precisely because they haven't advertised their hardware as open as you say.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  It's an issue given that I'd be more interested in using a Mac if I could choose which graphics card I get to use instead of perusing a pre-approved list of B-rate processing units.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Technically, if you've got the know-how, you could code your own graphics acceleration drivers for nVidia cards on MacOS, it'd just be extremely hard and expensive to do so.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      That is the opposite of 'it just works'
    - paulmd 5y ago
      You’d run into the same obstacle NVIDIA has, namely that Apple won’t sign your driver so it won’t run. NVIDIA isn’t morally opposed to Apple, it’s largely Apple that’s opposed to NVIDIA, for reasons like the cuda ecosystem and how it locks you into something that’s not an Apple product and how that would affect Apple’s leverage in future negotiations. Apple wears the pants, not their suppliers.
- skohan 5y ago
  I can't speak to where it stands in the current legal framework, but personally I don't think the vendor of any product should have any rights to determine how it's used once the customer has paid for it.
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    Why not just stop buying products that can’t do what you want?
    - skohan 5y ago
      Why not just have common sense property rights enforced by law?
      - endisneigh 5y ago
        What’s common sense property right? Isn’t it common sense to not buy a toaster expecting it to be a server even though they both have circuit boards and technically can both compute? Still don’t get why don’t you just buy things that advertise the functionality you want.
        skohan 5y ago
        A toaster is clearly not a general purpose computer. Should a car manufacturer be able to dictate which destinations you're allowed to reach with it?
        endisneigh 5y ago
        Why isn’t a toaster a general purpose computer? There are toasters with wifi, touchscreens and other functionality. As for your car question - why not? No one would buy such a crippled device. The problem would resolve itself. If a car manufacturer sold a car without a steering wheel that self drove, perhaps people would buy the car in spite of the limitations. What they shouldn’t do, is buy a car advertised without a steering wheel and then complain that it doesn’t have one. https://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Cooking-R180-High-Speed-Stainless/dp/B086H69SJ2 https://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Cooking-R180-High-Speed-St...

Yes exactly. It's not the bundling that's the problem, it's preventing free use of the hardware.

by skohan 5y ago

Yes exactly. It's not the bundling that's the problem, it's preventing free use of the hardware.

endisneigh 5y ago

Is that actually an issue though, given that Apple has never advertised their hardware as being "free-use"?

gpm 5y ago
In my opinion it should be, it should be an abuse of Apple's monopoly on the hardware (including patents preventing someone else from building an equivalent device) to create a monopoly on the software. Legally I don't think it is today though, and my understanding of the law is that it's precisely because they haven't advertised their hardware as open as you say.
smoldesu 5y ago
It's an issue given that I'd be more interested in using a Mac if I could choose which graphics card I get to use instead of perusing a pre-approved list of B-rate processing units.
- judge2020 5y ago
  Technically, if you've got the know-how, you could code your own graphics acceleration drivers for nVidia cards on MacOS, it'd just be extremely hard and expensive to do so.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    That is the opposite of 'it just works'
  - paulmd 5y ago
    You’d run into the same obstacle NVIDIA has, namely that Apple won’t sign your driver so it won’t run. NVIDIA isn’t morally opposed to Apple, it’s largely Apple that’s opposed to NVIDIA, for reasons like the cuda ecosystem and how it locks you into something that’s not an Apple product and how that would affect Apple’s leverage in future negotiations. Apple wears the pants, not their suppliers.
skohan 5y ago
I can't speak to where it stands in the current legal framework, but personally I don't think the vendor of any product should have any rights to determine how it's used once the customer has paid for it.
- endisneigh 5y ago
  Why not just stop buying products that can’t do what you want?
  - skohan 5y ago
    Why not just have common sense property rights enforced by law?
    - endisneigh 5y ago
      What’s common sense property right? Isn’t it common sense to not buy a toaster expecting it to be a server even though they both have circuit boards and technically can both compute? Still don’t get why don’t you just buy things that advertise the functionality you want.
      - skohan 5y ago
        A toaster is clearly not a general purpose computer. Should a car manufacturer be able to dictate which destinations you're allowed to reach with it?
        endisneigh 5y ago
        Why isn’t a toaster a general purpose computer? There are toasters with wifi, touchscreens and other functionality. As for your car question - why not? No one would buy such a crippled device. The problem would resolve itself. If a car manufacturer sold a car without a steering wheel that self drove, perhaps people would buy the car in spite of the limitations. What they shouldn’t do, is buy a car advertised without a steering wheel and then complain that it doesn’t have one. https://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Cooking-R180-High-Speed-Stainless/dp/B086H69SJ2 https://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Cooking-R180-High-Speed-St...