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Reading this, I cannot help but imagine someone at Apple thinking to themselves "I wish we had granted Epic an exemption like we did with Netflix". The court p

Reading this, I cannot help but imagine someone at Apple thinking to themselves "I wish we had granted Epic an exemption like we did with Netflix". The court proceedings and the documents that they were required to disclose were surely bad for PR and now it looks like they won't even keep the monetary benefits.

Factorium 5y ago
Fortnite will come and go but Unreal Engine will be generating revenues forever. Epic are more motivated by transferring the excess profits of Apple into modest profits for developers, who then redistribute 5% of their revenues (as part of the Unreal Engine license) back to Epic. I wonder if Epic will sue Steam and console developers next... Epic sells Unreal to Sony and Microsoft, so suing them is probably unlikely. But Valve could definitely be the next target.
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  > I wonder if Epic will sue Steam Why would Epic sue Steam? Fornite isnt on Steam, because it doesn't need to be. It's the platform (Windows) working in a competitive way!
  - Macha 5y ago
    Console developers on the other hand, are almost certainly next.
    - madeofpalk 5y ago
      I think Epic has a good relationship with console developers, generally, because they help each other out. Epic seems happy that it actually gets something back for giving up that 30%.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dleslie 5y ago
  > But Valve could definitely be the next target. Valve would simply refer the judge to their rather-successful competitors, including: - Epic Game Store - Origin - Blizzard Store - Microsoft Store - GoG - Itch.io - Ubisoft Store - Bethesda Store And to further their point, Valve would show how many games on Steam are found on other stores, and Valve doesn't prevent other companies from listing games on other stores. Valve does not have a monopoly; not by a long shot.
  - progbits 5y ago
    Not even a monopoly question (the ruling says it can't call Apple a monopoly). However Steam is not a walled garden. Feel like they charge too much? Go to itch.io or make your own website with Paypal button. It is your machine, your OS.
  - teruakohatu 5y ago
    Not only that, but Valve is bizarrely happy with developers selling games on their own website, or even competitor platforms, and then providing Steam keys for free. As a consumer it is amazing.
    - Factorium 5y ago
      Valve only did this so that it could effectively bundle its software with retail CD copies of games, back when they existed. When you dive into Steam, you'll see that it hasn't really changed in a decade. Valve are basically sitting back happy with the $billions pouring in each year owing to their 'first mover'/monopoly position.
marricks 5y ago
Uh, didn't it always seem like Epic was itching for a fight no matter what happened? That's the impression I got from the case but I also didn't follow it super closely.
- gpm 5y ago
  It did, but Apple might have been able to prevent Epic from having standing to sue by giving them an exception.
  - marricks 5y ago
    I imagine that could have hurt their case if Epic was always going to sue anyways.
    - gpm 5y ago
      I imagine it would have hurt their case if someone else, say Unity Technologies, sued. I really do think that Epic would have failed on the standing argument and not have even gotten to the fact finding stage of the trial where it could hurt their case. On the claim that Epic won, the courts finding on standing is already "just barely" > Thus, although the question is close, the Court finds that Epic Games has standing to bring a UCL claim as a quasi-consumer, not merely as a competitor.
dannyw 5y ago
It would only delay things. The class action lawsuit for example.
colinmhayes 5y ago
Epic is interested in creating their own store and increasing revenue developers get because of their unreal engine fee.
judge2020 5y ago
Netflix did not get an exemption. They still don't link to Netflix.com from the app since Apple dictates that they can't direct people to paying for subscriptions outside the app store. When Netflix did do some IAP subscriptions, they costed more to the user and were only available for a limited time.
- fomine3 5y ago
  If Fortnite did same things like Netflix, they'll be banned. Why Netflix or Kindle isn't banned is because Apple arbitrary allowed such app for some category, but not for games. See Hey case.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    What things? What did apple arbitrarily allow? Netflix has never used its own payment system within iOS.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Hey and xCloud tried to release an Netflix style (only allow login by existing account) app, but Apple rejects them. Finally Hey accepted but xCloud still not.

Factorium 5y ago

Fortnite will come and go but Unreal Engine will be generating revenues forever. Epic are more motivated by transferring the excess profits of Apple into modest profits for developers, who then redistribute 5% of their revenues (as part of the Unreal Engine license) back to Epic. I wonder if Epic will sue Steam and console developers next... Epic sells Unreal to Sony and Microsoft, so suing them is probably unlikely. But Valve could definitely be the next target.

madeofpalk 5y ago
> I wonder if Epic will sue Steam Why would Epic sue Steam? Fornite isnt on Steam, because it doesn't need to be. It's the platform (Windows) working in a competitive way!
- Macha 5y ago
  Console developers on the other hand, are almost certainly next.
  - madeofpalk 5y ago
    I think Epic has a good relationship with console developers, generally, because they help each other out. Epic seems happy that it actually gets something back for giving up that 30%.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dleslie 5y ago
> But Valve could definitely be the next target. Valve would simply refer the judge to their rather-successful competitors, including: - Epic Game Store - Origin - Blizzard Store - Microsoft Store - GoG - Itch.io - Ubisoft Store - Bethesda Store And to further their point, Valve would show how many games on Steam are found on other stores, and Valve doesn't prevent other companies from listing games on other stores. Valve does not have a monopoly; not by a long shot.
- progbits 5y ago
  Not even a monopoly question (the ruling says it can't call Apple a monopoly). However Steam is not a walled garden. Feel like they charge too much? Go to itch.io or make your own website with Paypal button. It is your machine, your OS.
- teruakohatu 5y ago
  Not only that, but Valve is bizarrely happy with developers selling games on their own website, or even competitor platforms, and then providing Steam keys for free. As a consumer it is amazing.
  - Factorium 5y ago
    Valve only did this so that it could effectively bundle its software with retail CD copies of games, back when they existed. When you dive into Steam, you'll see that it hasn't really changed in a decade. Valve are basically sitting back happy with the $billions pouring in each year owing to their 'first mover'/monopoly position.

marricks 5y ago

Uh, didn't it always seem like Epic was itching for a fight no matter what happened? That's the impression I got from the case but I also didn't follow it super closely.

gpm 5y ago
It did, but Apple might have been able to prevent Epic from having standing to sue by giving them an exception.
- marricks 5y ago
  I imagine that could have hurt their case if Epic was always going to sue anyways.
  - gpm 5y ago
    I imagine it would have hurt their case if someone else, say Unity Technologies, sued. I really do think that Epic would have failed on the standing argument and not have even gotten to the fact finding stage of the trial where it could hurt their case. On the claim that Epic won, the courts finding on standing is already "just barely" > Thus, although the question is close, the Court finds that Epic Games has standing to bring a UCL claim as a quasi-consumer, not merely as a competitor.

dannyw 5y ago

It would only delay things. The class action lawsuit for example.

colinmhayes 5y ago

Epic is interested in creating their own store and increasing revenue developers get because of their unreal engine fee.

judge2020 5y ago

Netflix did not get an exemption. They still don't link to Netflix.com from the app since Apple dictates that they can't direct people to paying for subscriptions outside the app store. When Netflix did do some IAP subscriptions, they costed more to the user and were only available for a limited time.

fomine3 5y ago
If Fortnite did same things like Netflix, they'll be banned. Why Netflix or Kindle isn't banned is because Apple arbitrary allowed such app for some category, but not for games. See Hey case.
- judge2020 5y ago
  What things? What did apple arbitrarily allow? Netflix has never used its own payment system within iOS.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Hey and xCloud tried to release an Netflix style (only allow login by existing account) app, but Apple rejects them. Finally Hey accepted but xCloud still not.